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-   -   Water leaking from under disposal/Installing new disposal (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/water-leaking-under-disposal-installing-new-disposal-74261/)

quadari 06-21-2010 12:35 PM

Water leaking from under disposal/Installing new disposal
 
Hello all,

I have potentially a two-part question:

1) My kitchen garbage disposal (which, as best as I can tell is ~12 years old; it was there when I moved in) has started leaking. The odd thing is that the water is leaking out from under the bottom of the disposal. When I run water into the drain drips of water come out from all possible holes on the bottom of the disposal (the electrical access panel, the reset button, etc.) Given this, I'm assuming this means there's some sort of leak within my disposal unit, which I'm thinking there isn't really an easy way to fix. I was wondering if people had thoughts on that. (After I took the picture below I disconnected the electrical line to the disposal to avoid any further water/electricity mixes.)

2) Assuming that I do need a new disposal, I wanted to point out that I'm in Illinois, and for some reason our great non-corrupt public servants have decided that it is illegal in Illinois to connect a dishwasher to a garbage disposal. Specifically, section 890.770 of the IL plumbing code reads:

"When a domestic dishwashing machine drain line is connected to the house side of a trap from a sink, the drain from the dishwasher shall be carried up to the underside of the spill rim of the sink. Dishwashing machines shall discharge separately into a trap or tail piece of the kitchen sink and shall not connect to the food waste disposal unit."

Whomever put in the disposal originally ignored that rule (see attached picture of under my sink). So I'm thinking that if I'm going to replace the disposal I might as well connect everything up correctly. So:
Subquestion 2a) Does that mean that the dishwasher disposal should connect into the black piece of PVC between the disposal and the white trap? Is that possible if I buy some sort of new branching connector?
Subquestion 2b) Is that piece of flexible accordion-like hose that connects the trap to the drain pipe up to code? I haven't been able to get a solid answer on that. I understand why the previous people used it as the drainpipe (which you can't quite see in the picture) sticks really far under the sink, so space is tight between the end of the drain pipe and the side of the disposal unit.

Under my sink:
http://i45.tinypic.com/xdickn.jpg

Any thoughts or suggestions are much appreciated.

Thanks!
Q

LateralConcepts 06-21-2010 02:41 PM

If it's a single basin sink I would just eliminate the disposal all together. Install new tailpiece and p-trap

Otherwise you would use a dishwasher tailpiece.

The accordion-style pipe you mentioned is not to code (big box store solution to make something fit when not plumbed correctly) Looks like the drain in the wall sits to high to accommodate a disposer.

Michael Thomas 06-22-2010 07:50 AM

As LateralConcept notes the connection height is incorrect.

Manufacturers specify acceptable connection heights for each model of food waster grinder (ďdisposalĒ), for example:


http://paragoninspects.com/images/ap...lumbing_ge.jpg

Example of allowable connection heights for food waste grinder (note that some of the connection methods illustrated may not meet current codes, irrespective of trap height)

If the connection height is incorrect water can stand in the bottom of the FWG and eventually rust through the motor housing, at which point water drips out the bottom.

In a situation like yours, the attachment of the trap armís drain to the building drain plumbing is too high to allow correct installation of the disposer, you will need to open the wall and relocate the tee to the vertical drain pluming low enough to allow correct trap height.

While you are at it, IMO the ideal installation for a single bowel sink w/ a FWG and a dishwasher connection is to install a double wye; one connection accepts the trap arm from a trap for the DW, one the trap arm from the FWG, and the third gets a clean out plug. (Donít forget that local codes and/or manufacturerís installation instructions may require a air-gap or high loop on the DW drain line (that's why the line loops down to the FWG in your picture), and that it be properly secured to prevent its being dislodged or damaged).

Itís awfully tight under that sink, in order to route everything properly it may be necessary to relocate the attachment to the vertical plumbing sideways, in which case additional plumbing code requirement need to be considered.

Also, you will need to correct the wiring to allow connection to the FWG per the manufacture's installation instructions and electrical codes, and that crushed corrugated flexible tailpiece is a good example of why these are prohibited.

______________________
Iím paid to be suspiciousÖ

http://paragoninspects.com/images/10...2X-trap-01.jpg

Alan 06-22-2010 10:09 AM

In regards to the dishwasher NOT connecting to the disposer, what we find around here is that people who do not have dishwashers complain that their disposer stinks a lot.

People who do have the dishwasher connected do not have this problem. :wink::yes:

tpolk 06-22-2010 10:11 AM

:thumbsup:

quadari 06-22-2010 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas (Post 459680)
If the connection height is incorrect water can stand in the bottom of the FWG and eventually rust through the motor housing, at which point water drips out the bottom.

Ahha! Well, I suppose that explains why the disposal started leaking. I just measured it and it's only ~7in from the underside of the sink to the center of the waste pipe.

Unfortunately I don't know that I really want to get into the business of opening up the wall to mess around with the plumbing in there just yet. We're planning on remodeling our kitchen cabinets in a few months anyway so perhaps when that happens we can do that sort thing as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 459722)
In regards to the dishwasher NOT connecting to the disposer, what we find around here is that people who do not have dishwashers complain that their disposer stinks a lot.

People who do have the dishwasher connected do not have this problem.

Yeah - from what I've read the hot water from the dishwasher helps flush out the disposal. But I guess Illinois doesn't quite see it that way.

Thanks to all for the comments. These are some of the many joys of living in a 90 year old building. (Don't even get me started on the electrical wiring. :eek: )

quadari 06-29-2010 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas (Post 459680)
In a situation like yours, the attachment of the trap armís drain to the building drain plumbing is too high to allow correct installation of the disposer, you will need to open the wall and relocate the tee to the vertical drain pluming low enough to allow correct trap height.


Hi all - to follow up on this. How difficult is it to do something like that. (Move the drain pipe down.) And/or: Does anyone have a ball-park estimate for what it might cost to get the drain pipe moved down? I'm trying to figure out if it is worth it to get the pipe moved down in order to install the disposal, or if I should just scrap the disposal altogether.

Thanks.


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