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Old 06-02-2013, 08:59 PM   #16
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Our unit manufactured in 1999, I could have probably let it go for another year or two, but decided that it was time to replace, since I was getting more sediment from the anode going bye-bye in the past six months, before we replaced it in March with a Power vent unit.

Plus I wanted to get rid of the old Brick chimney that was for the Water Heater & old Octopus, that just the Water heater was using, since it was leaking around the tuck pointing, and causing wood rot around it.

Right now, you can get a cheap and I do mean cheap 40 gallon for under $300 at Lowe's. Probably would not last more than four or five years, but that is what we get with the way products are going.

You cannot even get a power vent unit or On-Demand with more than a six year warranty on them, unless you want to go through a shop on sale-house to get one with a 12 year warranty.

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Old 06-03-2013, 01:31 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by jagans View Post
To be honest with you, I did not purposely buy one with an electronic ignition, it just came that way.

They designed something that is not capable of operating in the environment into which it is placed, and they should replace the part free of charge, thats my point.

Well you know, it's getting to be where we won't have a choice on this before long, because it seems like the standing pilot units are getting harder to find at all, because they are all making the switch to electronic controls, so you were not at any fault for getting this unit, it's how the majority come now!

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I guess I was remiss in thinking that the manufacturer would actually design a device that would continue to operate, or at least have a feature to protect their device from damage in the event of a minimal spike in current or voltage. I would have settled for a built in surge protector with a reset switch.
You were only in remiss in thinking they even CARE, once the short warrantee is done with it's TOUGH LUCK PAL! anyway, if you don't like it buy a new water heater, except the different brand you buy chances are is made by the SAME company anyway but with a "subsidiary" name! That's also the new corporate way of doing business, buy up competitors, keep their brand names and you get the money from customers for your first product and again when they get pissed at the defects and switch brands (or so they THINK they did) and they wind up buying another one from the very same company anyway.

I've seen this with power tools, Milwaukee, Black and Decker and others who buy out, merge with other companies and now it doesn't matter what brand you buy sometimes because it's just made in the same assembly line in China where they slap a different brand name on them.
I think it was Black and Decker who bought out Milwaukee, so now you can get that Black and Decker "quality" in your Milwaukee drills and tools.

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I do admire you for knowing enough to buy a non electronic HWH, but if the damn things dont work, or are prone to failure, why keep making them that way?
Thank you!
Because they know consumers have fewer choices any more, it's put up and shut up, or do without, because even if you switch brands chances are the one company owns that one too, they just play musical chairs with customers.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:10 PM   #18
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I'm looking to replace my 90's water heater as well.

I was looking at a Bradford White MI5036FBN-337 50gal NG from Amazon for around $500 shipped. The reviews seem mixed on Amazon (pilot light going out frequently) but much better on pexsupply. Anyone have good or bad experiences with BW? I'd like to stay in the $500 range for a 50gal but avoid buying junk.


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Old 06-03-2013, 02:39 PM   #19
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Interesting....

So ALL gas water heaters are going to electronic ignition? If so, sounds like I should run a ckt over to my water heater closet before I close up the walls.
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:17 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
Interesting....

So ALL gas water heaters are going to electronic ignition? If so, sounds like I should run a ckt over to my water heater closet before I close up the walls.
Hi Dawg,

In my research on these White Rogers Gas Valve/Control Board Units, it is becoming fairly obvious that a lot of these units fail in a fairly short amount of time. I have also read that the VOC protection sensor will kill the unit on something as innocuous as hair spray being used fairly far from the unit. In addition to all of this the manual says to clean the air intake screen once a month, or the unit will trip from thermal cut out, and the whole gas valve needs to be replaced, not just reset. Ill post a picture of my screen and you wont believe how it throttles off the air intake and could clog up in a week with a little bit of dust.

Now if this is not built in obsolescence, then I simply do not know what to call it.

I'm all for safety, but this is ridiculous. My furnace runs on natural gas, it has a roll out protection and overheat sensor, but if they trip, they don't kill the whole damn control board and gas valve. There needs to be a class action suit on this one sooner than later, as this is a blatant rip off of the public.
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:59 PM   #21
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All I install are Bradford White HWTs, and seldom do we encounter any issues. That said, as with any appliance if it installed improperly or not properly maintained it will have a much shorter life-span. More often then not, HWT issues stem from people purchasing either cheap HD/Sears "consumer grade" products in order to attempt to save a buck, or the installer just not being qualified to install the appliance.

Is the tank sized properly?
Is the venting properly graded if applicable?
Does the unit need a condensate kit?
Is enough combustion air present?
Is the gas pressure properly set?
Is the anode being inspected regularly?
Is the tank being flushed regularly?
Is the FVIR screen being cleaned regularly?

Roughly 9/10 HWTs I repair/replace that are 6 years and younger were installed by the "handy" neighbour down the street using sharkbites and a 36" gas appliance connector.

--------------

The thermal cut-off is unrelated to the gas valve and with most quality brands can be reset with a tab, button or cheap replacement part. What you are referring to is the ECO which is embedded in the the gas valve and being typically just a fluid filled bulb, should only function when the thermostat/gas valve fails... hence, get a new one.

Just vacuum the air-intake screens when you're vacuuming your house and you should be fine. There is no conspiracy.
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Old 06-03-2013, 04:28 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by HitLines View Post
I'm looking to replace my 90's water heater as well.

I was looking at a Bradford White MI5036FBN-337 50gal NG from Amazon for around $500 shipped. The reviews seem mixed on Amazon (pilot light going out frequently) but much better on pexsupply. Anyone have good or bad experiences with BW? I'd like to stay in the $500 range for a 50gal but avoid buying junk.

I thought Bradford White only sold to Licensed professionals?

Glad to see thats not true. In looking at the picture, it does not look like you have an electronic valve/control board so I think you will be fine. It also looks like it dosent have a VOC dummy sensor so thats good too. It also has a massive amount of intake for combustion air, so that too is good. And is that drain valve actually made of real brass???? Home run.

You are lucky you have a real flue into which you can pipe your exhaust. If you had a PVC flue you would need a power vent model which basically doubles the price of the water heater.

I would strongly advise you to change the anode rod to magnesium before you even install your HWH. The only difference between a 12 year warranted HWH and a 6 year is the type of anode you get. The tank is exactly the same.
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Old 06-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeplumber85 View Post
All I install are Bradford White HWTs, and seldom do we encounter any issues. That said, as with any appliance if it installed improperly or not properly maintained it will have a much shorter life-span. More often then not, HWT issues stem from people purchasing either cheap HD/Sears "consumer grade" products in order to attempt to save a buck, or the installer just not being qualified to install the appliance.

Is the tank sized properly?
Is the venting properly graded if applicable?
Does the unit need a condensate kit?
Is enough combustion air present?
Is the gas pressure properly set?
Is the anode being inspected regularly?
Is the tank being flushed regularly?
Is the FVIR screen being cleaned regularly?

Roughly 9/10 HWTs I repair/replace that are 6 years and younger were installed by the "handy" neighbour down the street using sharkbites and a 36" gas appliance connector.

--------------

The thermal cut-off is unrelated to the gas valve and with most quality brands can be reset with a tab, button or cheap replacement part. What you are referring to is the ECO which is embedded in the the gas valve and being typically just a fluid filled bulb, should only function when the thermostat/gas valve fails... hence, get a new one.

Just vacuum the air-intake screens when you're vacuuming your house and you should be fine. There is no conspiracy.
OK Joe, Let me ask you some questions:

1. How often do you actually flush out your hot water heater?

2. How often do you go down (assuming a basement installation) and clean the dust off of your combustion air intake screen?

3. How often do you inspect your anode?

I have owned 6 houses, and I can honestly say that I have not done these things in any of the houses I have owned. I have replace 2 hot water heaters, and they were both over 20 years old. Had I been more dilligent, They would have lasted longer because I would have replaced the anode rod, but of course I have NEVER, EVER SEEN THIS ADVICE IN THE OWNERS MANUAL FOR ANY HWH I HAVE PURCHASED.

My father had an AO Smith that lasted 35 years. I replaced that in 1983 with a Rheem, and it is still going strong. As far as I know, nobody has cleaned the intake, or changed the anode.

Now I completely agree with you that a HWH has to be installed correctly, but your intimation that the reason that the current crop of hot water heaters are failing due to incompetent installers is absolutely ludicrous.

I was trained to repair jet engines in the air force, I worked in a refinery where we repaired burners. I can take any internal combustion engine completely apart and rebuilt it from scratch, and make parts on my 1942 South bend lathe.

So installing a water heater is childs play to me, and many of the guys that do work on their own homes.

The fact, is that everything today is being made so cheaply, and with so many BS sensors involved, that they are failing after a ridiculously short period of time.

We are buying crap from countries that only made single use armaments up till a few years ago, most of which do not have running water, and so could give a crap if WE have hot water. They are paid 50 cents a week so quality is the last thing on their mind.

Now, take, crap workmanship, and put it together with crap materials, and make it complicated, and you have massive failures.

The amazing thing about this that really pisses me off is that I did not go out and try to buy the cheapest HWH. I paid over $850.00 for the one I got and it still failed. Americans are not generally cheap, and I always go out of my way to buy based on quality, but today, there is no assurance of quality no matter what you buy, because it is ALL CRAP.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:35 PM   #24
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There needs to be a class action suit on this one sooner than later, as this is a blatant rip off of the public.
There will be, just as there is on the defective 3 tab roofing, but only after tens of thousands of people get burned for a lot of money.


Quote:
So ALL gas water heaters are going to electronic ignition? If so, sounds like I should run a ckt over to my water heater closet before I close up the walls. -
I know I had to do quite a bit of searching to even find a standing pilot gas water heater, you can't even buy the old reliable round Honeywell mechanical thermostats any more because the mercury in the glass tube inside, now they sell the electronic ones.
I bought one of the mechanical ones on Ebay, that's about the last place to get those any more now.
So the water heater controls are going to same way everything else is- electronic controls.
People are going to be MIGHTY upset when their power is off for days or weeks for some reason and they have NO hot water, NO furnace, NO nothing because it all runs on electric or has electronic controls now.


Quote:
The amazing thing about this that really pisses me off is that I did not go out and try to buy the cheapest HWH. I paid over $850.00 for the one I got and it still failed. Americans are not generally cheap, and I always go out of my way to buy based on quality, but today, there is no assurance of quality no matter what you buy, because it is ALL CRAP.
Sounds like you, like the rest of us has woken up and smelled the coffee, it doesn't matter much any more what brand you get, or how much you pay because so many brands have been bought out or merged into one company, while others no longer MAKE their products they have third party factories in China make them and ship them.
The US has become a nation of importers and distributor/installers, even the venerable John Deere tractors have gone this route.
You can't pass any construction site these days and see one American built machine like a cat, dozer, crane, pile driver etc., what you WILL see are names like Mitsubishi, Daiwoo, Makita and other foreign names.
Any American names you might rarely see on a site like that will be things made in China, shipped here and sold.

Quote:
I have owned 6 houses, and I can honestly say that I have not done these things in any of the houses I have owned. I have replace 2 hot water heaters, and they were both over 20 years old. Had I been more dilligent, They would have lasted longer because I would have replaced the anode rod, but of course I have NEVER, EVER SEEN THIS ADVICE IN THE OWNERS MANUAL FOR ANY HWH I HAVE PURCHASED.
I moved into my house and the State gas water heater drain valve was plugged up with lyme, so in 14 years it was not drained/flushed or had any attention to it, it was installed in 1978 by the way. I just replaced it 2 years ago because it started to leak around the drain valve.
They don't give suchj advice because after your short warrantee is over, you are on your own. They WANT your unit to fail so that when you call up about how it failed and ask about warrantee they can tell you that you didn't change the anode, or you didn't vacuum the screen, or you didn't change the filter often enough, and their warrantee specifically lets them off the hook, and they know you'll buy another one because you NEED hot water. They won't care if you change brands because chances are good they own the brand you go to anyway!


Quote:
Originally Posted by HitLines
I'm looking to replace my 90's water heater as well.

I was looking at a Bradford White MI5036FBN-337 50gal NG from Amazon for around $500 shipped. The reviews seem mixed on Amazon (pilot light going out frequently) but much better on pexsupply. Anyone have good or bad experiences with BW? I'd like to stay in the $500 range for a 50gal but avoid buying junk.

Yeah well, if you notice, not one product on Amazon with any number of reviews has a 100% satisfaction rate, no matter what it is you search for, you will ALWAYS find a proverbial 25 "this is fantastic" 5 star reviews with comments like "I am SO happy with this I bought another, customer service was fantastic!!"
and 10 single star reviews with comments like "this was a piece of %^&%^^& right out the box!!!! company won't return my calls!!!!"

I bought a sears 40 gallon standing pilot water heater, it was around $400 two years ago.
It has had zero problems.

I have a GE washer and dryer I bought maybe 8 or so years ago, lots of laundry thru them, not one problem.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:00 PM   #25
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May I quote you? That is awesome.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:38 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by HitLines View Post
I'm looking to replace my 90's water heater as well.

I was looking at a Bradford White MI5036FBN-337 50gal NG from Amazon for around $500 shipped. The reviews seem mixed on Amazon (pilot light going out frequently) but much better on pexsupply. Anyone have good or bad experiences with BW? I'd like to stay in the $500 range for a 50gal but avoid buying junk.

We replaced ours with a Richmond 50 gal. Power vent and have not had any issues with it. Looking at this year's May gas bill and last year's, they are about the same, but only due to we are doing more stove/oven cooking this year, because I need to replace our grill, so unable to use it for stuff like Steaks, chicken, etc..
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:09 PM   #27
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May I quote you? That is awesome.
Its a fact, you cant patent a fact. Have at it
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:14 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by HitLines View Post
I'm looking to replace my 90's water heater as well.

I was looking at a Bradford White MI5036FBN-337 50gal NG from Amazon for around $500 shipped. The reviews seem mixed on Amazon (pilot light going out frequently) but much better on pexsupply. Anyone have good or bad experiences with BW? I'd like to stay in the $500 range for a 50gal but avoid buying junk.

that is a great water heater, i installed two of those this last week and think BW is a great brand
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:33 AM   #29
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May I quote you? That is awesome.
Or in the case of my ex, beauty is fleeting, but crazy is permanent.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:18 AM   #30
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Or in the case of my ex, beauty is fleeting, but crazy is permanent.
Well Bill, they say that the leaves don't fall far from the trees, so it dont make sense to hunt for a bride near a walnut tree. Is her mother nuts?

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