Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-02-2013, 01:48 AM   #1
Experienced HVAC Tech
 
HVAC1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 357
Share |
Default

Water heaters dying


So in these last two weeks I've noticed my company has been doing a lot of Water heater replacements and services. I walked to the back of my shop the other day and I saw we had 5 junked water heaters back there and a condenser because the junk guy hadn't stopped by for a day or two and I thought that that was a lot more WHs then usual for that short of time. Fast forward to this last Friday and I was walking through HD when I glanced over at the WH section and saw they were almost out of them. To me it seems like a lot of them are all dying this time of year.bive watched this happen year after year but can't figure out why. Is it something to do with the weather warming up or is it just a quinky dink. Does Bradford White have there manufacturing so precise that all of there units wear out at the same second? Hah just kidding, Bradford makes an excellent unit ( just so I don't make any bad impressions on any homeowners out there). But does anyone else notice this too, or have any input to why it happens around this time of year I mean there has to be something that changes that makes 'em all finally give out at about the same time, right? Or am I just crazy?
HVAC1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 03:28 AM   #2
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 6,215
Default

Water heaters dying


It's sort of like the assumption that more crime happens on full moons.

Look at it this way....a sub-division goes in....200 homes built in a year or so...all new water heaters.....

What do you think the chances are that some of them could fail at the same time? About the same odds of a weekend falling on a full moon.

Couple the above with the fact that it's about weeks after 'tax day'...so people have gotten their refunds.....(at least some people)....so like most of us...it goes to fixing crap in the house.
__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ddawg16 is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ddawg16 For This Useful Post:
gregzoll (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 06:20 AM   #3
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 23,488
Default

Water heaters dying


Moved to plumbing forum.
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 09:46 AM   #4
Roofmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,406
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
Moved to plumbing forum.
Well I was ging to respond, but since you moved it to plumbing and I cant just flip over there like before since the geniuses changed the format to make it harder, the hell with it.
__________________
" A lot of men build things, and a lot of things fall down "

jagans is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jagans For This Useful Post:
COLDIRON (06-04-2013), MTN REMODEL LLC (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 10:20 AM   #5
Remodel and New Build GC
 
MTN REMODEL LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Colorado @ 7651'
Posts: 1,623
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
Well I was ging to respond, but since you moved it to plumbing and I cant just flip over there like before since the geniuses changed the format to make it harder, the hell with it.
Jag... You're the first comment in re to the site designers changes.... I SECOND YOUR OPINION.

THANK YOU
__________________
Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MTN REMODEL LLC is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MTN REMODEL LLC For This Useful Post:
COLDIRON (06-04-2013), RWolff (06-03-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #6
Roofmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,406
Default

Water heaters dying


Yeah I know why they are dying.

This is the time of year that we get thunderstorms. Thunderstorms = Lightning. Lightning = Electrical Spikes.

I am replacing the control board/ gas valve on a less than 2 year old AO Smith with an electronic Intellivent gas valve. These valves/Control board combination are hard wired together, have no surge protection whatsoever, or means to reset in the event of a spike, and can be fried by something as simple as turning the breaker on and off. They are designed by an electronic idiot, or by an evil genius if you were to ask White Rogers. Hmmmm I wonder if the White in White Rogers is the same guy involved with Bradford White.

Back to the subject at hand. I bought my HWH, A SEARS Economizer 6 less than 2 years ago. It is made by AO Smith, who used to be the king of water heaters. I called sears for service and was told that the soonest they could come out to look is the 8th. Thats a week to respond to a loss of hot water. I asked them to simply send me the part. They would not. They had to send a technician out and a week out is the best they could do.

To me, this is the same as saying that their warranty means absolutely nothing, and I will never buy anything from sears again. I could wait if it was a clothes washer. I could wait if it was HVAC, since it is the spring. I cannot wait a week to get hot water.

I ordered a new valve/control board from Pex Supply because they have been very good in the past, and I should have the valve tomorrow. I will install it myself, and Sears can stick their warranty where the sun dont shine.

I AM PLUGGING MY HWH INTO A SPARE UNINTERRUPTABLE POWER SUPPLY (UPS) THAT I HAVE FOR MY COMPUTER SYSTEMS, TO ASSURE THAT THE VALVE IS PROTECTED FROM SURGE. I DO NOT THINK THAT A COMMON SURGE PROTECTOR WILL PROTECT THIS BOARD, AS MINE FAILED BY FLIPPING THE BREAKER.

I know that this is ridiculous to have to do for a water heater, but if you own a water heater with one of the valves as shown below you are forewarned. I just wish someone had told me about this issue. I understand that this valve is on quite a few makes. It is not cheap, as I have seen it from around $260 all the way to $480. This just goes to show you what a rip off parts are. The bas***ds at white rogers did not even design it with a plug in board, so you could just change the electronics, you have to drain the tank to remove the whole valve.

We are going backwards people, Way Backwards. There was absolutely nothing wrong with a simple thermocouple. My dads first hot water heater was an AO smith, it lasted 45 years, and he did not even know what an Anode was. We should have given it a ticker-tape parade. His original furnace never did die, we replaced it to give him AC 45 years after it was installed. The damn drive belt lasted 38 years, and my dad started to write to the company to thank them for building such a reliable furnace that kept his family warm for 45 years with seldom filter changes. Of course the company was out of business. I guess they made them too good. That was back when MADE IN THE USA meant more than just the box the item came in.

The valves that fail look like this:
Attached Thumbnails
Water heaters dying-img_0015.jpg  
__________________
" A lot of men build things, and a lot of things fall down "

jagans is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jagans For This Useful Post:
MTN REMODEL LLC (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #7
Experienced HVAC Tech
 
HVAC1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 357
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg16
It's sort of like the assumption that more crime happens on full moons.

Look at it this way....a sub-division goes in....200 homes built in a year or so...all new water heaters.....

What do you think the chances are that some of them could fail at the same time? About the same odds of a weekend falling on a full moon.

Couple the above with the fact that it's about weeks after 'tax day'...so people have gotten their refunds.....(at least some people)....so like most of us...it goes to fixing crap in the house.
Those are some excellent points I hadn't thought of, but does that mean these people have been living with these leaky or not operational units or they have put up with the cold showers until they got there refund? I'm just wondering if something like the flue gases not rising as fast do to it not being as cold outside or the WH being the primary user of gas in the house or something like that just being "the straw that breaks the water heaters back" so I finally gives out
HVAC1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 11:07 AM   #8
MarginallyQualified
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 3,464
Default

Water heaters dying


Add another swag:
City water pressure goes up for increased warm weather demands
TarheelTerp is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TarheelTerp For This Useful Post:
ddawg16 (06-02-2013), HVAC1000 (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 11:27 AM   #9
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 23,488
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
Well I was ging to respond, but since you moved it to plumbing and I cant just flip over there like before since the geniuses changed the format to make it harder, the hell with it.
But you did respond to it in plumbing.
__________________
When posting in certain forums, knowing your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions.
beenthere is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beenthere For This Useful Post:
ddawg16 (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 12:31 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,777
Default

Water heaters dying


Residential combustion water heaters manufactured since 2003 in the United States have been redesigned to resist ignition of flammable vapors and incorporate a thermal cutoff switch, per ANSI Z21.10.1. The first feature attempts to prevent vapors from flammable liquids and gasses in the vicinity of the heater from being ignited and thus causing a house fire or explosion. The second feature prevents tank overheating due to unusual combustion conditions. These safety requirements were made based on homeowners storing, or spilling, gasoline or other flammable liquids near their water heaters and causing fires. Since most of the new designs incorporate some type of flame arrestor screen, they require monitoring to make sure they don't become clogged with lint or dust, reducing the availability of air for combustion. If the flame arrestor becomes clogged, the thermal cutoff may act to shut down the heater.
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #11
Architectural Sculptor
 
RWolff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA, Midwest
Posts: 765
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
I am replacing the control board/ gas valve on a less than 2 year old AO Smith with an electronic Intellivent gas valve. These valves/Control board combination are hard wired together,
That's a big reason why when I replaced my water heater a year or two ago, I ordered one thru Sears that has a PILOT LIGHT, no electronics whatsoever.
It replaced my State water heater which according to the label on it was installed in 1978, the only problem it had in the 15 years I owned this house is it started to leak around the drain valve.

The claim that the electronic ignition saves fuel is bs, that little gas pilot light is not fuel wasted- the heat from that little 1000 BTU or whatever it is flame actually does keep the water warm. Set to a conservative temperature and with an additional insulation jacket on it, that pilot light kept the water to the set temperature all the time, and kept the MAIN burner from ever coming on except when the water was actually being drawn.
I will never buy a water heater with electronic ignition.
__________________
Sculpture scholarship recipient, 2008
Asbestos information:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


RWolff is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to RWolff For This Useful Post:
MTN REMODEL LLC (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 01:03 PM   #12
Roofmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,406
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by RWolff View Post
That's a big reason why when I replaced my water heater a year or two ago, I ordered one thru Sears that has a PILOT LIGHT, no electronics whatsoever.
It replaced my State water heater which according to the label on it was installed in 1978, the only problem it had in the 15 years I owned this house is it started to leak around the drain valve.

The claim that the electronic ignition saves fuel is bs, that little gas pilot light is not fuel wasted- the heat from that little 1000 BTU or whatever it is flame actually does keep the water warm. Set to a conservative temperature and with an additional insulation jacket on it, that pilot light kept the water to the set temperature all the time, and kept the MAIN burner from ever coming on except when the water was actually being drawn.
I will never buy a water heater with electronic ignition.
To be honest with you, I did not purposely buy one with an electronic ignition, it just came that way. I guess I was remiss in thinking that the manufacturer would actually design a device that would continue to operate, or at least have a feature to protect their device from damage in the event of a minimal spike in current or voltage. I would have settled for a built in surge protector with a reset switch. I mean my vacuum cleaner has one in case you suck up the fringe of a rug.

They designed something that is not capable of operating in the environment into which it is placed, and they should replace the part free of charge, thats my point.

As a friend of mine often said "Its not the screw up that counts, its the recovery"

I do admire you for knowing enough to buy a non electronic HWH, but if the damn things dont work, or are prone to failure, why keep making them that way?
__________________
" A lot of men build things, and a lot of things fall down "

jagans is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jagans For This Useful Post:
MTN REMODEL LLC (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #13
Roofmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,406
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Residential combustion water heaters manufactured since 2003 in the United States have been redesigned to resist ignition of flammable vapors and incorporate a thermal cutoff switch, per ANSI Z21.10.1. The first feature attempts to prevent vapors from flammable liquids and gasses in the vicinity of the heater from being ignited and thus causing a house fire or explosion. The second feature prevents tank overheating due to unusual combustion conditions. These safety requirements were made based on homeowners storing, or spilling, gasoline or other flammable liquids near their water heaters and causing fires. Since most of the new designs incorporate some type of flame arrestor screen, they require monitoring to make sure they don't become clogged with lint or dust, reducing the availability of air for combustion. If the flame arrestor becomes clogged, the thermal cutoff may act to shut down the heater.
Ghost, I hear everything you are saying, and I know its going to sound crude, but do you really think that someone who is dumb enough to keep gasoline in close proximity to an open flame should be able to propagate the earth with offspring?

I know you to be a wise person due to your posts, but don't you think that survival of the fittest is mental, as well as physical?

I can guarantee that the added safety features bbuilt into HWH's that keep people from scalding themselves, or blowing themselves up are the result of litigation.

Litigation prompts regulation. Regulation prompts loss of personal freedoms. Sounds far fetched, but it is not, I guarantee it.

You cannot litigate safety, just as you cannot litigate common sense. If you want proof, just watch Americas Funniest Videos. You will see people do some of the stupidest things imaginable.
__________________
" A lot of men build things, and a lot of things fall down "

jagans is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jagans For This Useful Post:
MTN REMODEL LLC (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 07:01 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,777
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
Ghost, I hear everything you are saying, and I know its going to sound crude, but do you really think that someone who is dumb enough to keep gasoline in close proximity to an open flame should be able to propagate the earth with offspring?

I know you to be a wise person due to your posts, but don't you think that survival of the fittest is mental, as well as physical?

I can guarantee that the added safety features bbuilt into HWH's that keep people from scalding themselves, or blowing themselves up are the result of litigation.

Litigation prompts regulation. Regulation prompts loss of personal freedoms. Sounds far fetched, but it is not, I guarantee it.

You cannot litigate safety, just as you cannot litigate common sense. If you want proof, just watch Americas Funniest Videos. You will see people do some of the stupidest things imaginable.

I'm going to be real crude. If a person is stupid enough to dump or store flammables by a water heater that is gas. The resulting fire did all of us a favor by removing a bad seed from the gene pool...
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 07:42 PM   #15
Roofmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,406
Default

Water heaters dying


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
I'm going to be real crude. If a person is stupid enough to dump or store flammables by a water heater that is gas. The resulting fire did all of us a favor by removing a bad seed from the gene pool...
Precisely what I was referring to. Enter the law firm of we, cheatum, and how, and the family of the now crispy critter sues, and we all get hot water heaters that are no longer reliable, and extension cords with so many warning tags that you cant find the plug.

Remember the guy who was adding wood extension legs to his red tipped 16 foot ladder so he could reach his 20 foot roof? No amount of pleading by everyone on this forum could convince him that this was a bad idea.

This guy will fall, then sue, and in comes the government to regulate the use of ladders. Beauty is only skin deep, but dumb is to the bone.
__________________
" A lot of men build things, and a lot of things fall down "

jagans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installing an electric water heater in series with boiler paul01420 Plumbing 10 04-20-2013 08:48 PM
I have two water heaters with the pilot shutting off randomly stanlam Plumbing 3 08-14-2010 03:57 PM
A blocked water line causing water to loose heat? Snav Plumbing 6 05-07-2010 02:18 PM
(Water Heater MYSTERY) Hot water out from dead tank with cold water in it? Inayity Plumbing 6 07-14-2008 08:36 PM
Tankless Water Heaters Recalled for Repair Due to Carbon Monoxide shimp Plumbing 1 01-22-2008 06:52 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.