Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-29-2008, 09:52 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 45
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


As a newbie I would like to commend this site & especially its regulars -so many problems solved! I am completely redoing my kitchen after 13 years. The island kitchen sink with disposall and dishwasher has no vent yet it has functioned perfectly. There is no way for me to install a through the roof vent but I could copy the design of my utility sink in the basement with an 8ft vent in a wall 4ft from the drain line. Is this worth doing and how small diameter does this vent need to be?

stan 41943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 12:07 PM   #2
I blame ProWallGuy
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 244
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Island sinks can be vented in more than one way. Not seeing a pipe coming out of the counter top and rising to disappear into the ceiling doesn't mean its not vented.

If could be on a continuous wasted and vent system, whereby the branch drain for the island is oversized intentionally to allow air to vent above the water level, or it could be loop vented.

You say this setup has worked well for several years, so, what makes you want to change/correct it now? Has something changed?

Double A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2008, 04:22 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 45
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


No nothing has changed- as a matter of fact, when the house was built the plumbing rough in looked like a work of art. Now after your explanation I'm once again impressed with their job. Won't change a thing. Thanks! That said, would be interested to learn about Loop vent & continuous wasted & vent systems. Guess they are commonly used in islands.

Last edited by stan 41943; 03-02-2008 at 10:33 AM.
stan 41943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 07:00 PM   #4
I blame ProWallGuy
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 244
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Example of a loop vent



Swiped from :http://www.rd.com/19540/article.html
Double A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 08:10 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 45
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Thanks. Great article in readers digest. Took a picture of my system but the site rejected because too many bytes. There is no trap above floor but there is a cleanout & the lines are BIG - 6"circumference -2"? Don't know how to send drawing.
stan 41943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 01:11 AM   #6
I blame ProWallGuy
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 244
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


You really do need a trap. For safety and health reasons your sinks should be trapped.

If you upload your picture via imageshack, you can link it here by using the "insert image" and pasting in the direct link to it. I think there is a current discussion on that in the help and site suggestions.

I have not found a good image of a combination waste and vent, but be advised, its not code approved everywhere.

Other than the trap, it still sounds like you're in good shape.
Double A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2008, 04:21 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 45
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Finally figured out how to send a picture. I believe there is a trap under the island.
Attached Thumbnails
Vent stack for kitchen sink-sink-drain-small.jpg  
stan 41943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2008, 01:41 PM   #8
I blame ProWallGuy
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 244
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Hmm... that doesn't seem like it would meet code based on any of the model codes I'm familiar with. The disposer should be separately trapped from the other bowl of the sink, that is assuming it is trapped under the island.

That is the other problem. That trap in addition to being two traps, should be accessible and of a type that will allow it to be taken apart and cleaned.

It seems that you have no vent, or a combination waste and vent system. Without seeing the rest of the plumbing, its hard to say for sure.
Double A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2008, 05:16 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga.
Posts: 45
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Double A, thanks so much for staying with me on this (I've also had computer problems this week). I realize that you are reluctant to endorse anything that doesn't meet code and that code varies in different locations.Just a theoretical : in the non code system pictured which has worked quite well for 12+ years, would putting traps on one or both sink drains be advisable, or is it more likely that no changes would continue to function best?
stan 41943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 02:10 AM   #10
I blame ProWallGuy
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 244
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Before you make any changes, look for a trap under the island.

If there is one there (and I can't for the life of me imagine a real plumber ever doing that) then adding more traps may be asking for trouble if you don't remove that hidden trap.

In a more perfect installation, you'd have your sink bowl and the disposer trapped individually and no trap under the floor.

Take a look and let us know.

p.s. Worst case (no trap under the floor) is you're allowing gases from the sewer system back into the house which is quite unhealthy. Best case is you have some screwy plumbing that is functioning (meaning, its trapped under the floor).

Last edited by Double A; 03-13-2008 at 02:13 AM.
Double A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 07:34 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 232
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


I was at my daughters NEW home,,in the last year or so,,,and she was standing over the sink an said they were having a problem,,,the disposal on one bowl of her sink threw dirty water into the OTHER bowl,,,sometimes.

I look under the sink and the dishwasher drains into top of disposal,disposal discharges into a 'straight' pipe over to the tee where the other bowl drains, then goes DOWN into the trap and then exits thru the wall.

So disposal MUST be throwing crap against far wall of that tee and UP into the bowl. Is this a code infraction to NOT have a disposal trapped on its own?? I never messd with disposals before cause septic tanks dont like them,,,is it 'standard practice' to trap each side?? Can they add a trap the disposal stuff twice,,,meaning adding a trap to the horizontal pipe to the tee,,,and it draining into the existing trap??

Bigger question,,,after a year or so,,is this something the builder(cookie cutter tract housing) 'SHOULD' come back and redo?? thanks--those pics were def. interesting,,,to see how others solve these issues!!
justdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 12:37 PM   #12
I blame ProWallGuy
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 244
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


First of all, understand this. Codes are written to ensure safety and functionality first and foremost. Sometimes the code makes sense to anyone that reads it, sometimes it makes little sense and seems inconvenient. That is when we get situations like your's and your daughters plumbing issues.

Most model codes call for a separate trap for a disposer for just this reason. The disposer can push dirty water into the other bowl of the sink where there might be clean food or dishes and contaminate them.

Its not a likely situation, but codes look more at possibilities, not really probabilities. Some local code officials think this such a low probability that they give in to pressure to exempt or cut out this section of the code for single family dwellings, but may still require it for churches, schools, day cares, etc.

The setup you're seeing in your daughter's home is called a continuous end-outlet waste. Its designed for two sink bowls to share a trap. I don't know what your local code calls for, but after one year, I wouldn't think the builder/plumber would have any responsibility to make corrections now.

Continuous end-outlet waste


Take a picture and start a new thread. We can tell you how to add a second trap to the disposer if you want to tackle it. If not, its usually not a lot of bother for a good plumber to change it over.

Or you can check out Kirby Palm's page on a disposer installation he did. Really good drawings and a nice picture of a disposer on its own trap. He's made the sink drain on one bowl a bit more complicated than need be, but nice work for a DIYer. His installation didn't include a dishwasher drain.
Double A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 04:21 PM   #13
Journeyman Plumber
 
Ron The Plumber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 1,994
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Double trapping under kitchen sinks are not allowed where I'm at, against code here.

UPC Code
__________________
Fix it right the first time, so you won't have to fix it a 2nd time.

2008 Oregon Specialty Plumbing Codes
Ron The Plumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 05:57 PM   #14
I blame ProWallGuy
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 244
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron The Plumber View Post
Double trapping under kitchen sinks are not allowed where I'm at, against code here.

UPC Code
Ron, you're referring a trap, followed by a trap, not one trap on the left kitchen sink bowl, and one trap on the disposer connected to the right kitchen sink bowl, and both tied into a wye and then out the back of the cabinet, correct?

I'm just trying to get our terms straight.

Double trapping in my experience is one trap followed by another trap and is not allowed under most model codes, unless the second downstream trap is a house trap.
Double A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2008, 06:25 PM   #15
Journeyman Plumber
 
Ron The Plumber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 1,994
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Vent stack for kitchen sink


Yes only one trap allowed under KS, you can't have two traps, i.e. two traps connected to a wye one to the disposal and other to opposite side of the sink.

__________________
Fix it right the first time, so you won't have to fix it a 2nd time.

2008 Oregon Specialty Plumbing Codes
Ron The Plumber is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
sink vent? redline Plumbing 6 03-13-2008 04:32 PM
Water from sink backs up in stack pipe. droy Plumbing 5 01-24-2008 07:39 PM
Can I tie the sink vent into the toilet vent? domgbrown Plumbing 4 01-11-2008 06:28 PM
Corrosion problem in vent stack. sgbotsford HVAC 2 12-01-2007 03:47 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.