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Old 08-26-2011, 12:21 PM   #1
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Vent questions for basement barsink


I am planning a basement, and want to put a bar sink in the basement. It is right under the kitchen sink on the main floor. The drain pipe for the kitchen comes down the basement wall and disappears into the coincrete floor, pretty standard.

The plumber I called said he could hook the bar sink up to that drain pipe, but he noticed there was no ventwork installed, and said he could vent it on the floor above into the cabinet under the kitchen sink, using an AAC.

1) I don't know if an AAC is okay in Utah, where I live, according to code. Anyone know for West Jordan, UT?
2) I am planning to pull a permit for my basement work, and the plumber wants me to not tell them about the bar sink and to have it done after they inspect the rough in, etc. for the bathroom. I asked if that was because the vent under the sink was against code and he said, "No it's just that they make you do all this laborious pressure testing, etc. etc."
3) I would much rather vent to outside the house. Could I:
a) somehow hook the basement bar-sink vent to my kitchen vent stack without too much trouble? I assume I'd have to open the wall above the kitchen drain, and could attach the vent from below at some # of inches above the "y"?
b) Could I vent out the side of the house through the rim joist, or do vents have to run to the roof?

Thanks!

Daniel


Last edited by danielrg; 08-26-2011 at 12:23 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:04 PM   #2
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Vent questions for basement barsink


Hey there,

It's hard to make a completely accurate suggestion from miles away on the internet - but I'll try my best (According to our local code here in Canada.

Here autovents are ok but I don't like to use them if I can avoid it.
The question to me is, how is the kitchen drain vented? If it is just a regular drain pipe you might be able to wet vent through it but you'd have to make that a 2" pipe. Because it is coming from the storey above it sounds to me like the pipe coming down is actually your stack in which case you'd have to check the load on that one before you can do anything. Hard to say from here.

Here you have to terminate above the roof. If you can do it where you are ...... I would still terminate above the roof - you don't want to have sewer gas all over the place.

Hope that helps somewhat.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:18 PM   #3
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Vent questions for basement barsink


castiron- many thanks for your comments

It sounds like I definitely want to vent in the roof if I don't use an AAC. I don't exactly know what wet venting is, unless it pretty much means using the vent already in place. There is a vent sticking out on the roof, and the pipe in the basement is 2", the pipe from the sink is 1.5". I can't see the vent pipe (behind the wall) and the drain pipe in the wall I can't see either, I assume it is 2" from the kitchen drain down to where I can see it in the basement.

So I have a couple of pictures I attached. "Plumbing-Current-Guess" - This is how I think it is now. I can't see the pipes in the wall upstairs, but I know the vent on the roof is on that side of the window.

I was wondering if I could add a vent stack the way I show in "Plumbing-Idea-1". Assuming this is okay, how much higher up than where the the drain from the sink enters the vertical pipe does the basement vent have to hook into the kitchen vent? How big does the vent pipe have to be? What is wet-venting? Is that where the air comes in from the existing vent through the vertical pipe?

I don't mind cutting up the wall behind the cabinet and under the sink so much - if I could run the vent up the wall and attach it the main vent stack and not have to tear up the kitchen wall above the sink I'd like that.

Thanks!
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Last edited by danielrg; 08-26-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:01 PM   #4
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Vent questions for basement barsink


I'm with castiron- hard to say what your code is, so I'll tell you mine-
AAV are generally not allowed- island sinks only
no wet venting multiple floors
vents must terminate thru roof-not side walls
When connecting vent lines together they must be 6" above the flood rim of the highest fixture on that floor( in your case, 6" above the kitchen sink counter top).
IMO- your plumber wants to install your sink but is also trying to sidestep these rules. He is trying to get as close to "legal" as he can but he's not quite there.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:41 PM   #5
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Vent questions for basement barsink


Hey there,

A wet vent is a pipe that is both a vent for a different fixture and a drain for itself. Here you would be able to wet vent over different floors.

Again based on our code up here if the Kitchen sink is the ONLY fixture that drains into that stack it should be ok to go straight into that stack provided it is big enough (2"), so you won't even have to run that vent up and tie it back into the stack above. Just a sanitary T would do (Make sure your distance from the stack to your new P trap is ok)

That said though, where are you other fixtures above draining into? Do you have another stack and vent somewhere else? And where are they joining the kitchensink etc? It seems odd that you would have a 2" line running from one fixture all the way to your building drain without any other load on it. It seems odd.
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:39 PM   #6
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Vent questions for basement barsink


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEplumber View Post
I'm with castiron- hard to say what your code is, so I'll tell you mine-
AAV are generally not allowed- island sinks only
no wet venting multiple floors
vents must terminate thru roof-not side walls
When connecting vent lines together they must be 6" above the flood rim of the highest fixture on that floor( in your case, 6" above the kitchen sink counter top).
IMO- your plumber wants to install your sink but is also trying to sidestep these rules. He is trying to get as close to "legal" as he can but he's not quite there.

Here in Oregon, we only have to tie in 6" above the flood level rim of the fixture being served.

The way that is drawn would be OK here.

If for some reason we're unable to rise 6" due to structural, we may be below flood level rim provided we use drainage fittings and provide 1/4" per foot grade on the vent pipe.

As for wet venting, multiple floor wet venting is a no-no.

I personally like the way your picture is drawn, and that is how I would do it, if it was possible to access the wall above.

We are however, also allowed to use AAV here, and there is a particular type we get that comes in a nice in-wall box with a louvered cover. If major demolition was an issue, i'd probably go that route.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:40 AM   #7
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Vent questions for basement barsink


Many thanks to you for your various responses. I think the next step is to maybe call another plumber and verify the code here with him and run my plan by him. If I have to vent 6" above kitchen sink, I think that the window is just high enough that I could tie in just below it and only have to fix a little sheetrock there. You've all provided some great options and insight.

Thanks!
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by danielrg View Post
Many thanks to you for your various responses. I think the next step is to maybe call another plumber and verify the code here with him and run my plan by him. If I have to vent 6" above kitchen sink, I think that the window is just high enough that I could tie in just below it and only have to fix a little sheetrock there. You've all provided some great options and insight.

Thanks!
Good luck to you and tell us how it went.

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