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Old 03-12-2015, 10:58 AM   #1
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UrinalFlush Valve Install/Design


I am currently working on a prototype of a new anti-splash urinal design. However, I am having a few issues with the flushing mechanism. The idea is to have the water come out of a horizontal slot at the top of the back wall of the urinal then cling to the wall and flow down out the bottom. The problem I am running into is too much water pressure. I don't know if it matters but the testing I have been doing is with a Moen 8312M0125. I want it to use the same amount of water, I just need a way to make it flow more slowly. Do current urinals require adjustments as far as pressure/flow rate? Can I partially shut the control stop to restrict flow? I know these are probably basic questions for someone with any installation experience and I appreciate any advice. I just want to see what my options are and if there any simple solutions I don't know about before I go the more complicated route and build some sort of restrictor into the urinal.

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Old 03-12-2015, 06:14 PM   #2
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UrinalFlush Valve Install/Design


Can I partially shut the control stop to restrict flow? Yes

But sounds like your entire house has higher then 80 Lbs pressure you may want to reduce that pressure with a pressure reducing valve so it will be about 60 lbs.

So first start with checking your water feed pressure. 80 is max allowed. 60 is normal.

Also be advised of the cost to get your fixture approved for use by a testing agency.

Urinals shall conform to ANSI Z 124.9, ASME A112.19.2M, ASME A112.19.19, CSA B 45.1 or CSA B 45.5

Water-supplied urinals shall conform to the hydraulic performance requirements of ASME A112.19.6, CSA B 45.1 or CSA B 45.5.

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Last edited by Ghostmaker; 03-12-2015 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 03-13-2015, 08:27 AM   #3
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UrinalFlush Valve Install/Design


Thanks for the info, this is exactly what I was looking for.
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Old 03-13-2015, 08:28 AM   #4
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UrinalFlush Valve Install/Design


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Can I partially shut the control stop to restrict flow? Yes

But sounds like your entire house has higher then 80 Lbs pressure you may want to reduce that pressure with a pressure reducing valve so it will be about 60 lbs.

So first start with checking your water feed pressure. 80 is max allowed. 60 is normal.

Also be advised of the cost to get your fixture approved for use by a testing agency.

Urinals shall conform to ANSI Z 124.9, ASME A112.19.2M, ASME A112.19.19, CSA B 45.1 or CSA B 45.5

Water-supplied urinals shall conform to the hydraulic performance requirements of ASME A112.19.6, CSA B 45.1 or CSA B 45.5.
I have been looking into it and I still have a few questions about the approval you mentioned. Am I still able to sell it if it isn't approved? In the future if I get to the point where I do have a product to sell it would not be large quantities, maybe 10 years from now if things go well, but not at first. I think the urinal would meet the required specifications you mentioned, but the time/money of having it tested at an outside agency is an issue at this point. These are a few examples that I could find of low quantity/handmade urinals that I could find that I would assume have not been approved and are still being sold:

http://www.clarkmade.com/urinals.htm

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1847543...et-keg-brewery

These are nothing like what mine will be, they are just what I could find that isn't made by a big brand manufacturer. So I guess my question is, what does not being approved prevent me from doing? What does approval allow me to do?
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:29 AM   #5
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UrinalFlush Valve Install/Design


You asked what the consequences were of trying to sell a product that can not meet code because it lacks approval.

Because it can not meet code,none will be purchased or installed by a licensed plumber,or used on any construction that will need to be inspected.

No plumbing supply house will stock or sell a non-compliant fixture--

That would limit your sales to whatever you personally can sell---and a disclaimer might be wise,or you will be flooded with returned,used urinals and possible back charges from the contractor who has failed an inspection.

I suggest you investigate the approval costs.
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Old 03-13-2015, 07:01 PM   #6
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UrinalFlush Valve Install/Design


What I would suggest you do is get your self a patent and see if any of the manufactures are willing to pick it up.

Non Approved fixtures cannot be installed. You as the designer must prove them safe and sanitary with the above listed testing laboratory's.
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:01 PM   #7
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UrinalFlush Valve Install/Design


Like toilets, urinals have a trap at the bottom. Better hydraulic performance is had when the water that remains in the trap at the conclusion of the flush cycle is as fresh and as new as is possible. Also the amoung of fresh water consumed during a flush cycle has to be as small as is possible.

The top of the urinal can be designed with channels for the water inside that make the flow down the back wall pressure independent, that is, strictly a gravity flow. Optionally you can have adjustments that limit the rate and duration of water flow and thus limit the total amount of water discharged during a flush cycle. Many designs have already been done over the years and decades. You might want to do a patent search to learn about some of the designs already tried and what advantages were sought and/or achieved.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 03-13-2015 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:42 PM   #8
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Keep in mind also that a lot of places are migrating to waterless urinals. The difference between developing the product for your own (experimental) use or other non-code-compliant type use as opposed to developing it for market or trying to get a deal with a manufacturer is night and day.

If it's just a hobby, that's fine, but as an investment I'd be cautious about it. You might get some interest from a high-end company if it's neat enough (They may be open to something somehow trendy and different for that segment of their market), and that's the place it would occur to me to look, but I would be concerned that new urinal designs on the lower end of the market (where most are sold) would fall into the "better mousetrap" issue. Markets, rather than just ideas, tend to drive invention.

If you are interested in pursuing it commercially, I would also be careful of discussing your potential invention with people who have not signed an NDA, as on a public internet forum. That can seriously affect (or entirely block) your patent rights depending on a variety of details. You should consult a patent attorney. Failing that, reading up about it would (probably) be better than nothing.

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