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-   -   Upgrading tub/shower hardware w/ stuck seat (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/upgrading-tub-shower-hardware-w-stuck-seat-156979/)

knight508 09-16-2012 01:15 PM

Upgrading tub/shower hardware w/ stuck seat
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hello all,

I have an old shower/tub setup with a hot, diverter, and cold line. The diverter and cold were leaking so I decided to buy this hardware replacement kit in hopes of it ending the leaking issue (old Sayco hardware). The problem I'm having is getting the seats out. It seems like the piping the seats rest in are covering the lip of the seat making it impossible to take the seats out. I stared at it real hard but I could easily be wrong. I had to cut out an access panel to get at the back of the pipes and I found this weird long single piping piece, check it out:
http://twitpic.com/avcm99
http://twitpic.com/avcm99

Now, with this big hunk of piping would I have to do anything special to get the seats out or should they spin out normally?

Here's the pic of inside the piping on the shower/tub side where the seat is located, I made notes on the photo:
http://twitpic.com/avcobq

http://twitpic.com/avcobq

jaydevries 09-16-2012 01:48 PM

try this video link let me know if it is what you are looking for
http://www.ehow.com/video_4420374_re...ub-faucet.html

knight508 09-16-2012 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydevries (Post 1011037)
try this video link let me know if it is what you are looking for
http://www.ehow.com/video_4420374_re...ub-faucet.html

Thanks but I did come across that video earlier. Notice how the first seat he holds is very small (the same one I have) but the one he removes easily fits in the tapered seat removal tool. I have the same tool and it's still too big. I tried hammering a tapered screw driver and turning with pliers but the brass gave. I'm just curious if this giant three-way pipping piece needs to be removed to remove the seats inside it.

jaydevries 09-16-2012 02:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
no should be able to fix from front in place. the set of seat wrenches i have has 4 sizes not sure if that is it or not with out seeing it. i usually suggest changing out the valve for a more modern single handle valve with a 3 hole to one hole trim piece

knight508 09-16-2012 03:48 PM

Thanks for the tip. With that being said do you think I should use an "easy-out" to remove the frozen seats? They're really stuck in the pipping. Do you have any other tricks/hints to getting tough seats out? Thanks!

Fairview 09-16-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight508 (Post 1011080)
Thanks for the tip. With that being said do you think I should use an "easy-out" to remove the frozen seats? They're really stuck in the pipping. Do you have any other tricks/hints to getting tough seats out? Thanks!

Following the screwdriver the easy out is probably your best choice and I would recommend the square Proto for that job.

Also if you end up going into the hard plumbing to solve this problem I'd also recommend going more modern with what's sometimes called washerless. I just replaced some seats and cartridge units that were 27 years old and it was a snap.

notmrjohn 09-16-2012 07:53 PM

A short squirt of PB blaster might help, break mineral build up and corrosion then flush out real good.
Wadda ya mean "weird long single piping piece" looks like mine, before I went single valve, didn't need jay's kit, carefully popped some tiles and rearanged/ replaced um. Now that I look again, that looks exactly like mine. What were you doing in my closet? and with a camera?

knight508 09-18-2012 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmrjohn (Post 1011220)
A short squirt of PB blaster might help, break mineral build up and corrosion then flush out real good.
Wadda ya mean "weird long single piping piece" looks like mine, before I went single valve, didn't need jay's kit, carefully popped some tiles and rearanged/ replaced um. Now that I look again, that looks exactly like mine. What were you doing in my closet? and with a camera?

Great advice in regards to the PB blaster! I bought a can of it and also bought a real seat remover (the one with the 3 double sided fittings and a ratchet) and they came out like cake. One weird side effect is my water tasted like the PB blaster (bleh!). I ran the shower to flush most of that toxic stuff out but I think a couple showers later and it should be gone.

Unfortunately though my cold water stem is still leaking. I think I know what the problem is though. There's a threaded piece you put over the o-ring before inserting the stem that's used to hold the fancy stem cover. When I go to tighten the stem the stupid o-ring gets all bunched up and doesn't stay under the stem like it should. I tried butter and vegetable oil but the damn thing (and only the cold water stem) still binds the o-ring and prevents a nice seal. I don't understand what's so different since the hot and diverter gave me no problems in regards to this. I am at least a step forward though since when everything's shut off there's no more leaking.

notmrjohn 09-18-2012 10:42 AM

a squirt of PB in my coffee gets my day off with a blast.
To flush it I just turn the water on a few seconds after removing stem or what ever.
O-ring, I hate when my O-rings get all in a bunch. Try plumbers grease, made for the purpose. Butter is for flapjacks, vegetable oil is for creaky carrots. Check the packing nut and stem for any roughness, nicks, mineral build up. Make sure O-ring is correct size. Might still need a twist of packing string.
Kids! Ask Mom to fry up a big pan of PB Blaster and O-Rings in plumbers grease tonight! Its Ohhhhhh Right!

knight508 09-18-2012 10:04 PM

Thanks for the reply and the comedic relief. Unfortunately I gave up and gave my plumber friend a call. I definitely wouldn't put it past my inexperience but I usually get almost all things to work out one way or another. The cheap Chinese piece of crap threads just didn't work for me when trying to get the fancy stem covers on. They wouldn't thread deep enough in order to get the handles to close without hitting them, thus always flowing water. I tried backing out and catching the thread correctly but it's just junk. Also, I got the grease and greased the o-ring and stem really well but the o-ring still bunched up. IMO it's poor design since they shouldn't leave such a big tolerance for the o-ring to flop around and pop out. I guess you couldn't expect much from a $50 set anyways.

notmrjohn 09-19-2012 10:58 AM

Sometimes when you've given it your best shot, you sill have to call in the hired guns. If you can't gain experience your self, you can learn it from others so watch him work, don't annoy him with questions, but if you make observation about something he does in way that seems like its most ingenious thing you've seen, even tacitern guy will explain things. I learned neat trick for clearing a drain line under my slab that had given me trouble for years. It would clog yearly at least, sometimes I could clear it with drill auger, more often rent one. But about 3rd-4th time even rented one wouldn't punch thru, line would kink twist throw me around. had to hire it done, they would push, cuss, sweat,lug machine on roof, charge me big bucks. Last time a guy comes out, has it done in 5 minutes! I am impressed, but i tell him something I noticed, he had no tip or cutter on end of 3/8 coil. He sez that coil spring type tip grabs clog but then auger just twists and kinks, I knew that, a blade type cutter just spins with no push, kinks again. Small no tip pushes thru, auger flops around knocking clog to bits. Then he told me real secret, run auger backwards while pushing, no kink. I cut the springs off my drill augers, back at the bad permenent kink, haven't had to rent or hire it done since. But plumber also sed, get this, I'll have to charge you for 1 hour, got anything else needs doing? So we went around house running bigger auger thru cleanouts and main line. That's plumber worth re-hiring, but as I sed, haven't needed to.

I dunno what any of that has to do with price of O-rings in China. " thus always flowing water." Could be that " weird long single piping piece" is not positioned right, covers don't screw in far enuff, or not enough threads on it, not long enuff fitting comeing from it, covers just plain too long. Without cover you can shut off water, without handle but with cover? Sometimes I have had problem getting packing nut and stem screwed together right, preventing stem from seating. Without packing nut you can shut off water?

I know you were talking of entire thing being cheap chinese, (I've got cheapo single handle that works fine, except tab that engages temperature mixing valve is tiny bit of plastic, wears out quick, showeree is suddenly boiled or frozen) but I bet there's not O-ring out there that isn't from Celestial Empire. If you ever need O-rings, especially if you don't know exact size, you can go to...( don't tell anyone I said this, there's folks here that jump all over you if you so much as mention Lowes or Homedepot, they'll form a lynching party for this ) Harbor Freight, 382 rings, various sizes $5, 397 metric $5. 225 nitrile rings $7, 225 metric nitrile $2, that's weird.

I'll let you go now, you don't wanta be wastin time reading this and keeping plumber waiting.

Javiles 09-19-2012 10:36 PM

Any of the old timer remember re-rimming bad seats that cant removed. :no::yes::huh:

notmrjohn 09-19-2012 10:56 PM

I still cot the tools.


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