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-   -   Toilet Rim holes not working (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/toilet-rim-holes-not-working-169570/)

7SistersRanchTX 01-19-2013 08:46 PM

Toilet Rim holes not working
 
I have read 3 pages of threads talking about toilets that are not completely flushing and nothing is helping. Maybe I need to specifically ask my question for my specific issue.
I have a Kohler toilet with a siphon jet at the bottom. When I flush with a full tank, ( to the top of the overflow tube), the water flushes out the siphone jet and anything in the bowl at or below water level goes down the drain slick as a whistle. The Rim jets however have No water coming out of ANY of them, dry, barron, free of water.
Anything above the water line, usually tissue, hangs out and never goes down.
I Inspected with a mirror and fingers and no rough surface. No calcium or lime build up. If there was something, I would have thought that I would have gotten at least some water out one of the holes.
About mid way from the water line and the rim, at the front of the bowl, above the siphone jet, is a hole that water does come out. But as I repeat, no water out of the rim jets.
I poured Lime-A-Way down the over flow valve so incase I missed, the tank would dilute the Lime-A-Way so it wouldn't damage the flapper and fill valve. All I got was a bowl full of Lime-A-Way. I let that sit for an hour and still nothing.
I removed the tank and inspected the inlet opening, with a mirror and hand I did not find any obstructions.
The only other thing is to remove the toilet completly and turn it on its nose so that the Lime-A-Way would stay in the ring and not fill into the bowl. Would that be the right next step?
If so if I remove the toilet I have to replace the wax ring correct, it can not be reused with the same toilet?
Anything else I can try before I pull/replace the toilet?

joecaption 01-19-2013 08:51 PM

A simple test, dump some red food coloring in the tank and flush it, see if any is coming out the holes and running down the sides of the tank.
To clean out the holes use a metal coat hanger or a pipe cleaner.

7SistersRanchTX 01-19-2013 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 1097427)
A simple test, dump some red food coloring in the tank and flush it, see if any is coming out the holes and running down the sides of the tank.
To clean out the holes use a metal coat hanger or a pipe cleaner.

Thanks, nice idea, but I already stated:
"..The Rim jets however have No water coming out of ANY of them, dry, barron, free of water."

So if I put red food coloring in the tank, all I will get is red water in the bowl, but the sides will still be white. Nothing runs out ANY of the rim holes.

After inspecting the holes with a mirror and didn't see anything blocking the holes, I used a wire, but that wasn't the issue, so a coat hanger or pipe cleaner wouldn't give me anything.

Tonight I poured yet again, more Lime-A-Way down the over flow tube and worked out an angle to squirt it under the rim to the holes, but don't know if I was able to get it in the holes. I will let it sit over night and maybe for two or three days and see.

Is there a drawing of the inner workings of this Kohler I can see so I can get an idea where the "blockage" may be. There is no telling when this started, this toilet are in an HOA clubhouse and I just got the handyman bid to look at why it wasn't working right. It may be an internal defect that was there when it was installed.

joecaption 01-19-2013 10:52 PM

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...EB&FORM=IQFRBA

kreemoweet 01-20-2013 02:53 AM

Try plugging that "extra" hole at the front of the bowl (duct tape?) to see if that does anything. My house has a Kohler toilet which formerly had almost all
of its rim holes plugged up. It was caused by a resident who used insane amounts of toilet tissue, resulting in almost daily toilet backups which exposed the
holes to dissolved toilet tissue pulp, and I suppose other stuff. The person moved away, the rim holes were repeatedly reamed out with wire, and the toilet
eventually returned to normal operation.

oh'mike 01-20-2013 06:09 AM

Is the little feed tube from the flush valve installed into the overflow tube?

If so is there any water coming out of the tube when the toilet is flushed?

Pour some water down that tube----

7SistersRanchTX 01-21-2013 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 1097629)
Is the little feed tube from the flush valve installed into the overflow tube?

If so is there any water coming out of the tube when the toilet is flushed?

Pour some water down that tube----

Yes, that is in there. I replaced the Flush mechanism as the original FlowMaster Pro took 1.5min to fill the tank. Now the Flowmaster eco fills in 30 seconds. That flush valve tube is in the overflow tube and puts water in the bottom of the bowl, fills from the bottom up.

7SistersRanchTX 01-21-2013 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kreemoweet (Post 1097600)
Try plugging that "extra" hole at the front of the bowl (duct tape?) to see if that does anything.....

I'll give that a try, and maybe plug the siphon hole too. I might blow water every where, but it might blow what ever is there out.

7SistersRanchTX 01-21-2013 11:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 1097536)

Yes, I see these great cutaway photos. I have attached one of them with some markings. How does the wafer get to the siphon jet "X" location.
It looks like there is no connection from "Y" the rimm holes to the siphon jet. I'm trying to see a cut away that shows how water gets from the flush valve to the rim holes and siphone jet.

Lightfoot 01-22-2013 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7SistersRanchTX (Post 1097531)

After inspecting the holes with a mirror and didn't see anything blocking the holes

you cannot tell by looking at the holes with a mirror. If they are stopped up, it will likely be from the inside of the rim (which you cannot see). Run a coat hanger in each hole all the way through it, and remember the holes are slanted, at least the ones i have seen are.

oh'mike 01-22-2013 12:18 PM

Did you pour water into the overflow tube like I suggested? In a Kohler toilet--that's where the rim holes get the water from

7SistersRanchTX 01-22-2013 11:52 PM

Ok, it seems like I'm getting requests to do things that I have already tried.
Issue: no water comes out ANY of the rim holes.
Here is the currently completed items and their results.
1. water goes into tank to the top of the overflow and stops.
2. water goes out the small tube of the fill valve into the overflow.
3. water sits in tank until flushed.
When flushed below are the actions.
1. Flapper in tank opens completly and water exits the tank.
2. water from tank shoots out the siphon jet and the bowl is emptied.
3. tank starts to refil and water from the small tube in the filler valve is pouring into the overflow. This causes the bowl to start to partially fill with water to the proper level.
4. NO water comes out any of the rim holes. Wire was used on many of the holes. Lime-A-Way was used in the tank and over flow for 2 days and still no water out the rim holes.
5. There is a smaller jet just above the siphon jet that water does come out. When this is plugged, it doesn't change anything, still no water out the rim holes.
6. The siphon jet hole was covered (made sure to wear gloves) and flushed. water came out the smaller jet that is just above the siphon jet, it just came out a little faster. The tank only partially emptied, about 1.5" Probably enough to fill the air gap between the water in the bowl to the flush valve. Bowl filled really slow since it was only getting water from the smaller jet. Still no water out the rim holes.
7. With full tank, siphon jet covered, smaller jet covered. The only place for water to go was the rim holes. I flushed. The flapper stayed in the up position. The tank remained full, bowl did not empty. Still nothing out the rim holes.

My conclusion: This Kohler toilet was mfg incorrectly and there is no path for the water to get to the rim area and holes. Without a proper drawing that shows the actual water path to the rim, this is my only guess.
Looks like I will have to replace the toilet.
Would Kohler replace this under some type of MFG service? No telling when or where it was purchased.

7SistersRanchTX 01-22-2013 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 1099420)
Did you pour water into the overflow tube like I suggested? In a Kohler toilet--that's where the rim holes get the water from

When I put water in the overflow, it comes out the siphon jet and the small jet just about the siphon. Nothing comes out the rim holes no mater where you put water.

epson 01-23-2013 12:57 AM

Try using muratic acid by running a steady stream down the overflow replicating a typical flush. This will eat the buildup out of the holes to the point like the day it was made. That way when you do this, you’re doing the same as if you were flushing the toilet. This will send the muratic acid through the bowl rim, cleansing all the buildup that you cannot even see, giving the effect of the way the toilet was when first installed. It might take 2 or 3 attempts, depending on how much buildup there is. You can find muratic acid Home Depot.



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