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Old 12-10-2009, 10:15 PM   #1
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Toilet question


Hello all, I am a newbie here and ran across this great site. I figured this would be the place to get the right answers for my problems---I am going to thank you in advance.
I am looking for some opinions on a problem I had at our new home(less than 3 months old).
One my young kids must have put too much toilet paper in the upstairs toilet. He flushed it, walked away and came downstairs.
About 30 minutes later my wife was working on the computer in the room directly below the bathroom when water started coming off of the ceiling.
Of course panic and mayhem was next. I ran upstairs to the bathroom and water was 2 inches deep on the bathroom floor and water was flowing into the two adjacent bedrooms.
The toilet bowl must have already cleared itself of the clog. The top of the bowl rim was wet with water. Water was still running into the tank and into the bowl and out the drain. I lifted the lid off of the tank and found that the flapper valve was hanging up on the float. I jiggled the float and the flapper valve fell to its seat.
The next day the plumbing company that installed the toilet for the builder came over to check it out. I showed them what had happened, and they saw the flapper hang up on the float. They made a "slight adjustment" to the float.
Now the plumbing company is denying a problem because they dont want to take responsability, Their explanation for the flapper not sealing is this: "If the water closet bowl is stopped up, the bowl will fill with water to the rim, the tank can not empty the stored water in order to let the flapper valve drop and stop the flow of water".
How can a stopped up toilet with water to the rim cause the flapper not to seal?????????? The tank is higher than the bowl.
If this is the case , every time the toilet gets clogged---there will be a flood.

Could someone explain if this is possible or not.

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Old 12-10-2009, 11:45 PM   #2
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well, back when toilets held much more in the tank there were often floods when the toilet was stopped up but luckily with the newer toilets, it doesn't happen as much due to the lesser amount of water in the tank.



but, regardless, I cannot see any reason the flapper would not fall and close regardless of how plugged the toilet was. The water is going to flow into the bowl and if it does overflow the bowl, it will only flow enough to allow the flapper to fall and seal the outlet.

as a test. use a plunger and hold it tightly against the bottom of the bowl. Flush the stool and watch what happens. Be cautious, obviously, to not let the bowl overflow but I think you will find it won't.

Just as a test, I went in and intentionally did this to my toilet and the water came a bit less than an inch from overflowing but it since the tank ran out of water, the flap closed and it quit running in except for the small tube. It may have eventually overflowed due to that small tube running water into the overflow tube but it would only have been until the tank filled and shut off the water totally.

regardless of some small amount of overflow, you would never get the amount of water you were faced with.

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Old 12-11-2009, 12:21 AM   #3
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If the water closet bowl is stopped up, the bowl will fill with water to the rim, the tank can not empty the stored water in order to let the flapper valve drop and stop the flow of water".


What a load of bs. The flood level rim of the bowl is lower than the flush valve in the tank which is where the flapper makes the seal. The only way that the tank would not empty enough to drop the flapper would be if the flood level rim of the bowl were higher than the bottom of the tank. Sorry, but I've never seen a toilet designed like that. I'd tell the contractor to demonstrate what he's telling you. When he says he wont, tell him you know he cant because gravity still exists on planet earth.
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Old 12-11-2009, 11:30 AM   #4
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You had two problems at once either of which is a big deal combine to create a bad situation.

First was the clogged toilet. Normally only one flush of water would go into the bowl and wouldn't be enough to cause an overfill.
Next your flapper bound up somehow with the float, getting stuck on the chain or something. Normally this would cause your toilet to run with no other ill effects.

Combine both problems and you now have your toilet running with no place for the water to go but onto the floor. Have you had a problem before with the flapper getting stuck?
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:13 PM   #5
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This is most likely a spammer due to the amount of links that were included in the post
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Old 12-11-2009, 01:13 PM   #6
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What a load of bs. The flood level rim of the bowl is lower than the flush valve in the tank which is where the flapper makes the seal. The only way that the tank would not empty enough to drop the flapper would be if the flood level rim of the bowl were higher than the bottom of the tank. Sorry, but I've never seen a toilet designed like that. I'd tell the contractor to demonstrate what he's telling you. When he says he wont, tell him you know he cant because gravity still exists on planet earth.
And there's a reason they're not designed like that. They wouldn't work, they'd create a potential cross connection between the waste and potable water, and then there's this problem that they're stating. What a bunch of carp.
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Old 12-11-2009, 03:25 PM   #7
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Thanks everyone for the replies, I think my builder is coming to terms about the bogus statement the plumber used to cover his ... . I new it did not make sense. He says he is going to work with us to fix the damage. Hopefully it all works out... thanks again.
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:04 AM   #8
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And there's a reason they're not designed like that. They wouldn't work, they'd create a potential cross connection between the waste and potable water, and then there's this problem that they're stating. What a bunch of carp.

Exactly!
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:25 AM   #9
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I have had flappers hang in the open position. grateful for no clog
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:29 AM   #10
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JDC, I'm no plumber for sure, but I had what I thought was this same issue a few years ago, old job. Toilet was clogged, found out when the water ran under the closed door,(tiled floor) out into the dining area. I'm thinking the key when it happens is that the clog was present during the last couple of flushes, bowl level kept getting higher, then one more flush would push it over the top and not let the flapper close down.. and just to make sure, I'm only trying to learn here. thanks
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:34 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
And there's a reason they're not designed like that. They wouldn't work, they'd create a potential cross connection between the waste and potable water, and then there's this problem that they're stating. What a bunch of carp.
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Originally Posted by JDC View Post
Exactly!
I do have a question for you plumbers though. What about those low back toilets where the tank outlet does appear set below the water surface in the bowl, like with this one? I understand the rest but this style of toilet seems to go against physics, at least by the outward appearance of the thing.

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Old 12-12-2009, 10:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by DUDE! View Post
JDC, I'm no plumber for sure, but I had what I thought was this same issue a few years ago, old job. Toilet was clogged, found out when the water ran under the closed door,(tiled floor) out into the dining area. I'm thinking the key when it happens is that the clog was present during the last couple of flushes, bowl level kept getting higher, then one more flush would push it over the top and not let the flapper close down.. and just to make sure, I'm only trying to learn here. thanks
the point is the flapper is above the rim of the bowl so no matter how high the water was in the bowl, it would not prevent the flap from closing and stopping water from exiting the tank.

that is in any typical toilet. I do not know about the one I posted and asked about though. I'll wait for the plumbers to explain that one because that one I do not know.

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