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Old 03-07-2011, 05:48 PM   #1
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Toilet flange questions


Ok, so I've done a lot of reading and searching on this site on how to handle this broken flange but had some specific questions.

I've decided to update my bathroom after a fat plumber stood on my toilet and broke the flange during a re-plumb. He shimmed it and it was fine for a few months but it ultimately broke and the toilet rocks. Rather than call him back and try to argue my point a few months later, I am going to fix it myself. I've already emptied most of the bathroom including the old toilet and pulled up the old tile.

The subfloor is concrete and the old flange is glued in to the inside of the drainpipe. I plan on tiling around the flange and hopefully the top of it will be just above the ff. Let's keep away from the discussion of which position is better. My questions are as follows:

1. Is there a reason the original flange is not anchored to the subfloor with tapcons or anything similar? Looks like just the glue is holding it into place and it doesn't even rest on the subfloor or finished floor. Oddly, the toilet never leaked a drop.

2. Would I be wiser to just get a metal ring to slide underneath the existing flange and use tapcons to secure it to the foundation and anchor the toilet to that? as opposed to replacing the flange.

3. If I replace the flange and glue a new one in, do I still need to use tapcons to secure it or is the glue enough like the original setup?

I suspect the answer to that last one is "no, the glue is not enough" but just wanted to get some professional opinions.

Thanks,
Angelo
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:01 PM   #2
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Toilet flange questions


The original one should have been tapconed to the concrete----A flange repair ring might work if there is enough clearance--they go on top of the old flange and are screwed to the floor.

I suspect that there might not be room for that. You might be better off removing the old one--
Chiseling away the concrete and adding a new one--(glued to the outside of the pipe.)--Mike---

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Old 03-07-2011, 07:31 PM   #3
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Toilet flange questions


I think I am going to go with my #2 above.. I picked up this metal ring that fits nicely on top. It might be a bit high but I will put plenty of thinset when I lay the tile around it.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:08 PM   #4
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Toilet flange questions


That looks kind of high---are you sure the toilet won't bottom out on that?
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:48 PM   #5
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...but I will put plenty of thinset when I lay the tile around it.
Probably not so much actually, unless you intend to raise all the tile in the room and that ain't gonna' happen with thinset either.

Why not use some DITRA tile-underlayment to raise the floor slightly and do it right? You're kiddin' yourself if you think you can do it with thinset alone.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:35 PM   #6
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Toilet flange questions


The toilet flanges like that one made of all pvc are a joke, I always use the one with the stainless ring to start with, don't even know why they sell junk like that.

You don't need the outer part of the flange to create a good seal, the inside of the flange looks fine and the wax ring gives plenty of leeway to seal it up tight.

The simple fix is just drill a hole in the concrete where the bolt should be and epoxy a stainless steel bolt into the hole, just get one long enough to get well into the floor, cut the head off and epoxy it in with the cut end down. Get one with threads all the way if you can or stainless all thread rod if you can find it. It will hold better in the epoxy. I have done it many times.

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Old 03-08-2011, 12:39 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by iamrfixit View Post
You don't need the outer part of the flange to create a good seal, the inside of the flange looks fine and the wax ring gives plenty of leeway to seal it up tight.

The simple fix is just drill a hole in the concrete where the bolt should be and epoxy a stainless steel bolt into the hole, just get one long enough to get well into the floor, cut the head off and epoxy it in with the cut end down. Get one with threads all the way if you can or stainless all thread rod if you can find it. It will hold better in the epoxy. I have done it many times.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:06 AM   #8
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Probably not so much actually, unless you intend to raise all the tile in the room and that ain't gonna' happen with thinset either.

Why not use some DITRA tile-underlayment to raise the floor slightly and do it right? You're kiddin' yourself if you think you can do it with thinset alone.
I didn't think I needed to raise it much... from what I can tell with "generous" thinset but not over doing it I should be under 1/4" above the ff. You think that's too high?
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:06 AM   #9
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Toilet flange questions


Nope. Whats the issue?

I have pulled toilets set on a slab to find no flange at all, just a cut off end of the pipe and the anchors fixed into the concrete or a cast flange with the bolts rusted in so solid they are literally part of the flange.

Epoxy set anchors are pretty common, we use them all the time to anchor large commercial grain bins and equipment, much larger and more critical anchors than the bolts holding a toilet. Have had many in place for years outside in the weather. Hilti sells a whole line of epoxy adhesive and anchors.

Sure I would prefer to have a whole new flange in there but that's pretty difficult when it is all set in concrete.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:41 PM   #10
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Your toilet must rest (when installed) on the base. The base must sit flat on the finished floor. Turn your toilet on its side and lay a straight-edge across the base. Then measure from the edge of the straight-edge into the top of the seal. See how much room you have. Your photo is showing about 1/2" from what I see here and that may be too high to suitably compress the seal and still have the base sitting flat on the floor for un-wobbling support.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:53 PM   #11
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Toilet flange questions


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Originally Posted by AngeloUCF View Post
Ok, so I've done a lot of reading and searching on this site on how to handle this broken flange but had some specific questions.

I've decided to update my bathroom after a fat plumber stood on my toilet and broke the flange during a re-plumb. He shimmed it and it was fine for a few months but it ultimately broke and the toilet rocks. Rather than call him back and try to argue my point a few months later, I am going to fix it myself. I've already emptied most of the bathroom including the old toilet and pulled up the old tile.

The subfloor is concrete and the old flange is glued in to the inside of the drainpipe. I plan on tiling around the flange and hopefully the top of it will be just above the ff. Let's keep away from the discussion of which position is better. My questions are as follows:

1. Is there a reason the original flange is not anchored to the subfloor with tapcons or anything similar? Looks like just the glue is holding it into place and it doesn't even rest on the subfloor or finished floor. Oddly, the toilet never leaked a drop.

2. Would I be wiser to just get a metal ring to slide underneath the existing flange and use tapcons to secure it to the foundation and anchor the toilet to that? as opposed to replacing the flange.

3. If I replace the flange and glue a new one in, do I still need to use tapcons to secure it or is the glue enough like the original setup?

I suspect the answer to that last one is "no, the glue is not enough" but just wanted to get some professional opinions.

Thanks,
Angelo
The metal ring goes over the top. Now their are a few Make sure that you get the stanles steel one . And not the black one . It has ear's on it and may not fit in the base of the stool?? If you get the black one their are 2 that i know of one has small ear's so check it out. Eather one use tap con's screws. Be sure and aligne up the hole's that the stool bolt slide's in. Now if you put tile down get the spacer. Probly the reason the ear broke unever concrete? Watch tighten the bolt's and don't break the foot . Good luck i didn't read any other post's
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:44 AM   #12
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Your toilet must rest (when installed) on the base. The base must sit flat on the finished floor. Turn your toilet on its side and lay a straight-edge across the base. Then measure from the edge of the straight-edge into the top of the seal. See how much room you have. Your photo is showing about 1/2" from what I see here and that may be too high to suitably compress the seal and still have the base sitting flat on the floor for un-wobbling support.
This makes sense to me, I'll give it a shot when I get home. I just got the toilet in yesterday, it's sitting in the garage all boxed up (toto drake). I'm hoping there's a nice amount of clearance as I'd hate to have to try something else considering how simple this could be. I haven't layed the tile yet so that 1/2 inch should be reduced considerably.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:22 PM   #13
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Toilet flange questions


Ok so I just measured and I have 5/8" clearance... which makes me wonder how you might ever install one with the flange on top of the finished floor. Seems like there would be no room. Anyway this might be close
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:27 PM   #14
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In your Post#8, what is the tape measure sitting on? Isn't that tile? I realize there is no thinset but I thought the tape was resting on a piece of tile.


If that is tile, and nothing changes except the addition of a little thinset, you should be OK. I didn't realize you were using a new toilet. If that's the case I wonder if there is a diagram that came with the toilet showing the dimensions required.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:33 PM   #15
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Toilet flange questions


You are correct Bud, the tape is sitting on a loose tile on the concrete. My 5/8" clearance refers to the space between the toilet base and the underside of the toilet. See below.
The documentation that came with the toilet doesn't mention the flange height. Is the 5/8" shallow for the average toilet? If not, then when you have a flange that's 5/8 or thicker sitting on top of the finished floor, would you not be able to install it? I may try to go back to HD and see if I can find a flat ring to use instead, since this one has a lip.

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