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Old 03-07-2013, 12:42 PM   #1
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Toilet flange question


hello,

I am a complete newbie to plumbing matters, so here goes:

I am preparing to tile our bathroom floor. I removed the toilet and saw that the metal flange ring was deteriorated, so I removed it too.

I know that I need to replace the flange, and I'm hoping the photos give an idea of the problem I'm seeing. The original metal flange ring (now removed) was elevated about 1/16" from the slab, and was not attached to the slab with any fasteners. My understanding is that the flange should be firmly attached to the slab. When I install the new flange I want to attach it to the slab with screws but, as I hope the photo shows, there is a gap between the pipe and the slab...the fastener holes in the new flange ring do fall atop cement, but the margin is so narrow that I'm afraid it will just bust off the concrete around the pipe anywhere I try to put a screw in.



Is there something I can fill the gap around the pipe with that will be strong enough to take screws without breaking? Would something like Durhams work for this?



Next question: In order to raise the toilet enough to accommodate the new tile I want to install another abs flange that is reduced to fit inside the existing waste pipe. I intend to run the mounting fasteners for this flange down through the fastener holes on the metal flange ring that will rest against the slab. problem is that (as I hope the photo shows) the top of the waste pipe was very roughly cut off by whoever did the original install, so that the new abs flange won't sit down squarely on the remaining portion of the original flange.



How can I smooth out that profile so that the new flange will sit squarely on that old surface? i was thinking of trying to sand it down, or cut it off with some kind of saw blade, but I don't want to risk cracking the waste pipe.

As I read back over this I'm afraid it all comes across as very confusing...does anyone have any ideas, and does my plan for using a new abs flange atop a new metal flange make sense?

Thanks for any help.

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Old 03-07-2013, 01:34 PM   #2
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Toilet flange question


This may sound like a little bit more work, but may ultimately be more simple.

Bust out some of that concrete and clean the waste pipe up so you can extend it up to the exact height you need with the new flange installed. Then go back and fill in busted out area with some quick-crete smoothing it out to the desired height for the new floor. Are you putting some type of subfloor down for the tile or just onto the concrete?

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Old 03-07-2013, 01:59 PM   #3
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Toilet flange question


Thanks Gerb10,

My intention is to use thinset to install the tile directly to the slab.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:58 PM   #4
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Toilet flange question


What do you think about using and inside pipe cutter to cut it off below the abs flange in order to sleeve another length of pipe onto the existing waste pipe?
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:41 PM   #5
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Toilet flange question


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Originally Posted by clambake6 View Post
What do you think about using and inside pipe cutter to cut it off below the abs flange in order to sleeve another length of pipe onto the existing waste pipe?
Thats cast iron Good luck with that....

To fix it right break the floor up and transition to plastic with the proper coupling. Cut the cast with a cast iron sawzall blade once floor is opened.

Use a mission brand 4 by 3 transitional cast to plastic coupling.

A 3 inch 90 and a 3 inch toilet flange that is plastic.

Then re concrete the hole.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:33 PM   #6
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Toilet flange question


Thanks for responding, Ghostmaker. It isn't cast iron, but I can see how the photo makes it look that way. I hadn't really cleaned much of it since I popped the blue metal flange ring off. It's definitely abs.

I'm going to re-post the question (which has changed somewhat now that I've cleaned up the pipe) and add some photos.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:43 PM   #7
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Toilet flange question


How much riser do you have before the hub of the 90 and what is the pipe size?
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:15 PM   #8
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Toilet flange question


Thanks for your response, TheEplumber.

The situation and questions have changed a bit. I've cleaned up the pipe some, and smoothed down the face of the part of the old flange that was sleeved onto the pipe:


I purchased a new flange of this type:


which I'm hoping to install as pictured here:


But it leaves me with a gap of about 1/8"+ from the underside of the old flange and the surface of the slab:




So my questions at this point are:

1. Is that a correct use for that new flange?

2. Does any sealer need to be applied between the new and old flange faces?

3. As far as that 1/8"+ gap is concerned, can I shim between the underside of the old flange and the slab face? I was going to use a new metal flange sandwiched in between the old flange and the slab, then run the screws from the new abs flange down through the new metal flange (used as a shim) but the holes don't line up just right. I was thinking instead that I would cut the new metal flange into 4 sections so that I could more accurately align the holes between the two flanges.

4. I still need some ideas on filling that gap between the side of the waste pipe and the concrete in a way that will allow me to screw down into the concrete without busting the edge off.


TheEplumber, the answer to your question is: the waste pipe is 17" from the top of the old flange to the 90*
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:24 PM   #9
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Toilet flange question


Oh, and the pipe size is 4"
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:25 PM   #10
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Toilet flange question


If that type of flange seals on wall of the pipe I'd use it with one exception.
Find one with a metal ring instead of the thick plastic.
Grout around the pipe with a non shrink- high strength grout
Then tile, set the metal-lower profile flange an anchor through the tile into the slab. By this time the gap you reference won't be an issue.
There are a couple of other methods that work also.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:27 PM   #11
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Oh, and the pipe size is 4"
You can get flanges that glue inside 4" I would feel better using it instead of the push in type. I like glue better then gaskets
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:37 PM   #12
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Toilet flange question


Thanks very much, TheEplumber!

Only one clarification, I think: What you are telling me is that the thinner profile metal flange sits on top of the finished surface of the floor?
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:52 PM   #13
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Thanks very much, TheEplumber!

Only one clarification, I think: What you are telling me is that the thinner profile metal flange sits on top of the finished surface of the floor?
Yes. There is an ongoing debate here about setting flange on the finish floor or on the sub floor. At the end of the day- it's not a big issue- especially in your case. I suggested the metal ring(stainless steel if you can find it) is because the newer toilets seem to have a shallower recessed area for the flange and bowl wax. Sometimes the difference in ring thickness makes all the difference. Setting on top- you eliminate your cap issue, which I assume you can float out with your tile/thin set
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:55 PM   #14
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Toilet flange question


Wait a second, why do I see what looks like an old flange still intact in the pipe? I see trouble using that inside flange pipe. What if he glues it and the height is to high and the toilet rocks? I would use a chipping hammer around the pipe and use a 4 inch flange. Or a one piece brass flange down too the concrete. You could anchor your bolts at a slight angle and not worry about cracking a plastic flange. And stay away from those pesky tapcons.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:12 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by paintdrying View Post
Wait a second, why do I see what looks like an old flange still intact in the pipe? I see trouble using that inside flange pipe. What if he glues it and the height is to high and the toilet rocks? I would use a chipping hammer around the pipe and use a 4 inch flange. Or a one piece brass flange down too the concrete. You could anchor your bolts at a slight angle and not worry about cracking a plastic flange. And stay away from those pesky tapcons.
Perhaps I'm seeing it different then you.. The flange is 1/8" above the concrete now, so adding tile would raise it a 1/2". So it will sit down all the way.
No matter how it's done the flange needs to anchor to the floor- I don't like tapcons either- very seldom do I use them.

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