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-   -   Toilet drystack - how close, what angles allowed? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/toilet-drystack-how-close-what-angles-allowed-159462/)

weekendwarrior9 10-08-2012 09:42 PM

Toilet drystack - how close, what angles allowed?
 
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Hi all,

Working on some floor plans and am wondering what is allowed in terms of how far a vent stack can be from the toilet. One configuration that the wife likes the most makes it impossible to put the vent stack close to toilet. I can get it into a wall that is about 4 feet away, but am unsure if that would be allowed.

Another annoyance is that the vent stack location is down stream in direction of the sewer mains, so I'll have to figure out an angle of connection that still places the vent upstream of the toilet drain...

TheEplumber 10-08-2012 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekendwarrior9 (Post 1026920)
Hi all,

Working on some floor plans and am wondering what is allowed in terms of how far a vent stack can be from the toilet. One configuration that the wife likes the most makes it impossible to put the vent stack close to toilet. I can get it into a wall that is about 4 feet away, but am unsure if that would be allowed.

Another annoyance is that the vent stack location is down stream in direction of the sewer mains, so I'll have to figure out an angle of connection that still places the vent upstream of the toilet drain...

UPC states 6' for the toilet vent. Other codes are different.
In relation to the sewer flow- I don't see your point

DannyT 10-08-2012 09:51 PM

the vent stack itself can be anywhere as long as the vent comes off of the line to the toilet within 6 feet like theEplumber said.

weekendwarrior9 10-08-2012 10:08 PM

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Well, if I understand this right, i would have liked to have used the method on the right, it would have let me not drill holes horizontally through my studs. But I think due to wall and support issues, I'll have to use the left method.

Of course I am probably not understanding this properly and the right isn't allowed?

FWIW the toliet is on the terminus of the entire sewer line. All other drains tie into the main sewer line downstream of the toilet's tie in.

Alan 10-08-2012 10:16 PM

Neither of those drawings are allowed by the rules of UPC, but may be by other codes.

To allow us to be a little more accurate in assisting you, it may be best to find out which code you are governed by.


In reference to the 2nd part of your post, the vent SHOULD be downstream, not upstream.

Again, this is by UPC standard.

TheEplumber 10-08-2012 10:46 PM

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Will this method work? You're allowed 6' distance

weekendwarrior9 10-09-2012 06:02 AM

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Hmm interesting.

Yes, am governed by the UPC here in California.

I was under the impression that a toilet always had to have the vent pipe come in directly with a sweep T. The ideal situation is scenario A, correct?

My problem is that there is a high window in the wall where my wife wants the toilet. I've seen vent pipes move laterally through walls that I've taken apart before and assumed that I would be able to do something like scenario B/C.

So D is the correct answer for this particular issue?

For my own education, can someone explain what B and C are incorrect? Does air not move efficiently laterally?

Javiles 10-09-2012 08:48 AM

any trapped fixture coming off a horizontal connecting to vertical needs to be vented this is the IPC very close to the UPC, the vent can be up or down stream within 5 feet of the WC , again IPC also the bottom of all vent stacks must be wet either by wet vent or wet bend again IPC . i am sure one of the plumbers here familiar with the upc will correct differences.

Alan 10-09-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekendwarrior9 (Post 1027135)
Hmm interesting.

Yes, am governed by the UPC here in California.

I was under the impression that a toilet always had to have the vent pipe come in directly with a sweep T. The ideal situation is scenario A, correct?

My problem is that there is a high window in the wall where my wife wants the toilet. I've seen vent pipes move laterally through walls that I've taken apart before and assumed that I would be able to do something like scenario B/C.

So D is the correct answer for this particular issue?

For my own education, can someone explain what B and C are incorrect? Does air not move efficiently laterally?

C is just a variant of A

B is not allowed because "the vent shall be taken off the top invert of the pipe, and travel a minimum of 6" above the flood level rim before offsetting to intersect another vent" (perhaps not a direct quote, but close enough so you get the gist of it.)

D is just fine as well.

weekendwarrior9 10-09-2012 03:04 PM

So C would be allowed then?

Assuming yes, is there a practical difference in the type of drain flow rate I would get from C vs D, assuming the same size pipe used in each?

If C is OK, is there a required angle for the lateral movement? Does it have the same 1/4" per foot (2" inch pipe, could go to 3") like the drain line is or does it have to have 45 degrees like hot water heater vents, or somewhere in between?

TheEplumber 10-09-2012 03:20 PM

A, B, and C are all acceptable methods. The vents come off the top of the toilet arm. It's a matter of opinion which is better- if in fact one is better. I'll use the method that best suits the situation, also worth considering- what fittings I have on hand.:) And thats all the consideration I'll give them.

When the 2" vent rises to a structural obstruction such as a window, you can offset horizontally as long as you use drainage fittings and maintain 1/4" per foot grade. But you cannot connect the toilet vent to another vent until you are 42" above the floor, or to word it another way- 6" above the flood rim of the fixtures being served

weekendwarrior9 10-09-2012 04:30 PM

Thank you, everyone, for the answers. This has helped a lot. Have to triple up the two wall studs I'll move laterally through, but this answers both my toilet and kitchen sink questions.

Do have a question about multiple sinks sharing one vent, but I'll make a new thread for that.

Alan 10-09-2012 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEplumber (Post 1027420)
A, B, and C are all acceptable methods. The vents come off the top of the toilet arm. It's a matter of opinion which is better- if in fact one is better. I'll use the method that best suits the situation, also worth considering- what fittings I have on hand.:) And thats all the consideration I'll give them.

When the 2" vent rises to a structural obstruction such as a window, you can offset horizontally as long as you use drainage fittings and maintain 1/4" per foot grade. But you cannot connect the toilet vent to another vent until you are 42" above the floor, or to word it another way- 6" above the flood rim of the fixtures being served

Look at B again closely please. I know my version of UPC would not allow that, because the vent is coming off the vertical offset portion of the drain, and the trap arm is above the vent.

:huh:

With that in mind, D wouldn't work either, unless the pipe was coming straight up below the toilet.


Now that i'm thinking about it, those are horrible pictures.

Alan 10-09-2012 10:16 PM

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Ok, here's a quick isometric of your toilet line.


On the left, we have the vent coming off the top of the trap arm behind the toilet using a "Low heel inlet" fitting for the vent. Vent can then be offset in the wall to get around obstacles.


On the right, the toilet line is vented before it gets to the toilet, the vent will need to be offset on a 45* angle to hit the wall, and furthermore the line may need to be closer to the wall than the 12.5" required for the flange in order for the vent to make it in to the wall, which would then require that the trap arm be offset nearer to the toilet. This is not drawn, but you should be able to get a basic idea from these drawings.


Those are the legal ways to vent a toilet in my area.

TheEplumber 10-09-2012 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 1027785)
Look at B again closely please. I know my version of UPC would not allow that, because the vent is coming off the vertical offset portion of the drain, and the trap arm is above the vent.

:huh:

With that in mind, D wouldn't work either, unless the pipe was coming straight up below the toilet.


Now that i'm thinking about it, those are horrible pictures.

Allen, I stand corrected. B is not "correct" per UPC
I have vented off the vertical part- between the flange and 90 though using a 3x2 wye and not going horizontal. Passed inspection too!
I feel UPC's venting rules on W.C.s are an overkill. Are they not self siphoning traps?


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