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-   -   toilet drain is too close to the wall in the basement (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/toilet-drain-too-close-wall-basement-58711/)

Kirock17 12-07-2009 01:13 PM

toilet drain is too close to the wall in the basement
 
Hi,
I'm trying to finish out my basement. It came with drain pipes already in place for a toilet, sink and shower. However, the toilet drain pipe is 11 inches on center from the unfinished concrete wall. I am planning on finishing the walls, meaning that after foamboard insulation, framing and drywall, I have the toilet drain 6 inches on center from the wall. I'm trying to figure out what my options are at this point. I'm thinking I can either cut the concrete and move the pipe, or possibly build a raised floor in the bathroom and try to use piping to offset the drain. Has anyone ever come across a problem like this and have any suggestions to help me out? Thanks for your input,
Kirk

rjniles 12-07-2009 02:50 PM

Raising the toilet on a platform (throne) looks like what it is - a half a**ed fix to a screw up. Bite the bullet and cut the concrete out and do it right.

Kirock17 12-07-2009 03:16 PM

We are actually building the bathroom off of a small hallway. If I raise the floor level to shift the toilet drain, I was thinking of running the raised floor all the way out into the hall. That way there would be a step in the hallway and the the whole bathroom would be the same elevation. I measured it off today, and with 92 inch ceilings, I think I could still have a good 7 feet of clearance. Do you think that would be better, or should I still cut the concrete?

Haff 12-07-2009 03:25 PM

Can you move the wall?

Kirock17 12-07-2009 03:44 PM

Nope, it's one of the poured concrete exterior walls of the basement. I can't figure out why the builders put the toilet drain so close to that wall, but they did and I get to figure out what to do about it.

rjniles 12-07-2009 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haff (Post 362903)
Can you move the wall?

He said the wall is concrete.

I would not raise the floor. 92" is little enough headroom without reducing it further. You do not want to give your new room the cave look.

wrangler 12-07-2009 09:40 PM

It really isnt that hard to break up the small area of the floor needed to move the drain forward, in fact, it will probably be easier and qicker than raising the floor (cheaper too). Admittedly, it seems a bit daunting at first, but once you have done it you'll be surprised. Just go to a rental store (even HD) and rent a breaking hammer and bust out a little bit larger than you need to be able to cut the old (hopefully PVC pipe) and be able to connect the new parts. Most off the shelf commodes are 12" though you can get 10" as well. If you go with breaking the floor, I'd set it up to be 12" to not limit yourself on choices of comodes.

Kirock17 12-08-2009 08:06 AM

I'll admit, I find cutting the floor a bit daunting, which is why I was considering raising the floor. However, based on what I've read here, I am much more seriously considering cutting the floor. I do have a few questions though...The pipe coming out is pvc, how do I cut up the floor without cutting through the pipe? Also, in a poured cement basement, are the pipes actually in the poured cement or do they run in a space or in the dirt underneath the cement? finally, I'm wondering how far from the wall a drain for a bath tub is supposed to be. I haven't measured that one off recently so I can't remember what it is. But I figure if I'm going to cut the floor, I may as well move that one too, if it is wrong. Thanks for all the input!

Ishmael 12-08-2009 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirock17 (Post 363297)
I'll admit, I find cutting the floor a bit daunting, which is why I was considering raising the floor. However, based on what I've read here, I am much more seriously considering cutting the floor. I do have a few questions though...The pipe coming out is pvc, how do I cut up the floor without cutting through the pipe? Also, in a poured cement basement, are the pipes actually in the poured cement or do they run in a space or in the dirt underneath the cement? finally, I'm wondering how far from the wall a drain for a bath tub is supposed to be. I haven't measured that one off recently so I can't remember what it is. But I figure if I'm going to cut the floor, I may as well move that one too, if it is wrong. Thanks for all the input!

You won't regret cutting the floor - it's really the right way to fix it. the slab is typically about 4" thick. If you look down the existing drain, you should be able to get an idea of how far beneath the slab the horizontal run of pipe is. The pipe is usually laid in a trench in the dirt, buried, and then the slab is poured. Sometimes the pipe can be up closer to the surface, but not usually. If you damage the pipe, you'll just have to cut up that much more floor to take your repair a little further, that's all. I like to use a concrete cutting wet saw. It's more of a hassel to set up (and clean up) than a hammer drill, but the actual "work" is much quicker. It helps if someone is following right along your cut with a wet vac. Whatever method you use, just make sure no big fragments fall down the pipe. Finally, after you've extended (or shortened) the pipe to the desired location, put a spacer around the stub that'll maintain a little space between the new concrete patch and the pipe. They sell spacers (usually styrofoam, or plastic and styrofoam) specifically for this purpose. This allows you to glue the closet flange onto the pipe after the concrete has cured and your finished flooring has been laid.

All tubs are different. Find the make and model # of your tub and go to the manufacturers web site to get a copy of the rough-in specs for exact measurements. You've also got a lot more flexibility with tub drains in that you can buy a waste and overflow that drains "above the floor" and run the waste pipe horizontally to reach the stub. They also make "shoe outlet" and "side outlet" waste and overflows. When I rough in for a tub in a basement, though, I usually leave the horizontal waste arm for the tub capped in a pit below grade, then I build a box about 12" square to go around it to keep the concrete out when it's poured. When it comes time to finish the installation, that's when I fit the trap. But if your trap is already installed below grade, you can probably make it work without busting up the slab.

wrangler 12-08-2009 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirock17 (Post 363297)
I'll admit, I find cutting the floor a bit daunting, which is why I was considering raising the floor. However, based on what I've read here, I am much more seriously considering cutting the floor. I do have a few questions though...The pipe coming out is pvc, how do I cut up the floor without cutting through the pipe? Also, in a poured cement basement, are the pipes actually in the poured cement or do they run in a space or in the dirt underneath the cement? finally, I'm wondering how far from the wall a drain for a bath tub is supposed to be. I haven't measured that one off recently so I can't remember what it is. But I figure if I'm going to cut the floor, I may as well move that one too, if it is wrong. Thanks for all the input!

No, the pipes run under the concrete. You actually will be breaking up the floor 'close' to the pipe, not actually 'cutting' the pvc. Don't worry too much about damage to the pvc since you will be cutting and redirecting the drain. Most tub stubs need to be about 1 1/2 to 2 inches from the stud wall. The difference will be taken care of by the tub shoe.

wiley0714 12-09-2009 12:05 AM

2x4 framing, is 3 1/2 inches. and water/mold resistant green board is 1/2 or 5/8 inch. going with 1/2 inch board is 4 inches so you would have 7 inches of space from your 11?
i put i a saniflo unit in my basement. drains toilet, and two fixtures into a box which you could frame into the wall (with) access panel over it. just a possible solution to your design for 800.00 which meets ansi codes and might be cheaper than tearing up your floor.

Kirock17 12-09-2009 09:14 AM

I already have the framework up and I went with 1 inch foam board, ~1/2 inch space between foam board and the 2x4, and I'm planning on using 1/2 inch drywall. Thus the 6 inch from center figure is my actual measurement. I'll look into the saniflo option though and see if that will work for me. Thanks!

rjniles 12-09-2009 10:44 AM

The Saniflo will cost a lot more tan breaking up a little concrete.

meboatermike 12-09-2009 04:10 PM

toilet drain to close and cutting concrete
 
I have actually twice rented a large electric hammer drill from HD before, it is fairly hefty but much tamer then a jack hammer using compressed air -- these work surprisingly well at breaking up concrete -- wear your safety glasses and keep your feet out of the way :eek: and go at it -- this should not take long to bust up

Booron 12-09-2009 09:16 PM

That is probably not a toilet drain, it sounds like it is your septic system clean-out. There is nothing inherently wrong with using it as a toilet drain, but busting up the concrete is the only option. And keep in mind that if you ever run into any septic problems, they will need to remove one of your toilets for access...


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