DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum

DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum (http://www.diychatroom.com/)
-   Plumbing (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/)
-   -   Tankless Water Heaters (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/tankless-water-heaters-8941/)

Rick Bruner 06-04-2007 09:08 PM

Tankless Water Heaters
 
I have a two story home with 3/4 finished basement; 1 full bath and two half baths - kitchen w/ dishwasher - only two of us in the house - the tank water heater that I installed 12 years ago was the least expensive with a 5 year service life (I was unemployed at the time).....so I am getting a bit anxious....I have been researching the tankless units.....what I have found so far is that a lot of literature says one needs a 3/4" water supply - which I do not have; only 1/2" - house is about 60 years old.....so obviously if I go from 1/2" to 3/4" there will be a drop in pressure....existing pressure is about 82psi.....so question is can I even use a tankless water heater......? And any suggestions on which is the best....?
Thanks,
Rick
PS....I have natural gas

Rick Bruner 06-07-2007 10:27 PM

Tankless Water Heater
 
All....
Just curious why no replies.....did I ask a bad/stupid question......?
Thanks,
Rick

majakdragon 06-08-2007 11:50 AM

I usually don't get into questions about tankless units. I have seen too many complaints about them from the initial cost to having hard water which will plug them up. Also, many plumbers will not service them after installation. I see no reason to need 3/4" piping unless the unit has 3/4" inlet and outlets which could be increased and decreased on each side of the unit. Warranty void would be the only reason I can think of. Hopefully, someone will come in with the answers you need. Good luck.

Tmb9862 06-08-2007 05:01 PM

I would imagine it says 3/4 because code says in almost all cases you need at least 3/4 pipe if you're branching off it. Therefore it has a 3/4 inlet and a 3/4 outlet and the directions assume your plumbing is up to code. I can't see using 1/2in pipe doing any harm behind hurting your flow when you have multiple fixtures going which shouldn't be a problem since they don't make that much hot water anyway. Definatly call the company and make sure it won't void your warranty though.

As far as tankless units go I'm not a big fan. The ratio of complaints to people who are happy with them isn't great.

Tankless Man 06-09-2007 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Bruner (Post 47719)
I have a two story home with 3/4 finished basement; 1 full bath and two half baths - kitchen w/ dishwasher - only two of us in the house - the tank water heater that I installed 12 years ago was the least expensive with a 5 year service life (I was unemployed at the time).....so I am getting a bit anxious....I have been researching the tankless units.....what I have found so far is that a lot of literature says one needs a 3/4" water supply - which I do not have; only 1/2" - house is about 60 years old.....so obviously if I go from 1/2" to 3/4" there will be a drop in pressure....existing pressure is about 82psi.....so question is can I even use a tankless water heater......? And any suggestions on which is the best....?
Thanks,
Rick
PS....I have natural gas


Ok, first read this thread: http://www.contractortalk.com/showthread.php?t=22340

Next, whatever people are feeding you about how bad tankless heaters are is just lame and uneducated......words.

Now, 1/2" pipe can serve UP TO 3 fixtures. That is code.
If you have a 1/2" cold serving your heater, it is under sized right now, tankless or not.

Physically yes you can put one, and it will do its job. Something tells me your plumbing is screwed up with this 1/2" setup you have going.

If you have undersized pipes you probably will not have a sufficent gas line to service the larger demand for gas. Therefor you will encounter issues. Which is what unknowing home owners that have idiot plumbers install tankless heaters without doing it correctly. People say they are easy to install....no they are not. To install them correctly it takes a lot of work, it's not just a swap out thing. When installed incorrectly, they operate incorrectly. When they operate incorrectly moron plumbers say "it's the heater" and now these FAR superior units get a bad wrap. A HIGH quality tankless heater installed correct is unmatched in performance and reliability.

As for your set up, I wouldn't install it. If it can't be done the right way, don't do it. Your plumbing is not correct as you have described, tanked or tankless.

Tankless Man 06-09-2007 10:28 PM

Quote:

I can't see using 1/2in pipe doing any harm behind hurting your flow when you have multiple fixtures going which shouldn't be a problem since they don't make that much hot water anyway.
What the hell? Are you insane? That has to be one of the dumbest things I have read on these boards.

clasact 06-10-2007 06:40 AM

I have three Titans in my home and all came with 1/2 fitting .I have had them in for a bit over a year now and have had no problems ,mine are electric and have saved me alot on my gas bill since I got rid of the tank heater,so you might just want to do a bit more reseach before giveing up on them.Oh and their are 5 of us in the house and we havent run out of hot water yet

Tmb9862 06-10-2007 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tankless Man (Post 48465)
What the hell? Are you insane? That has to be one of the dumbest things I have read on these boards.

My point is you're not going to be running three showers and a dishwasher at the same time off most tankless units. 1/2in pipe should be enough to carry everything the tankless unit can produce.

Ron The Plumber 06-10-2007 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmb9862 (Post 48480)
My point is you're not going to be running three showers and a dishwasher at the same time off most tankless units. 1/2in pipe should be enough to carry everything the tankless unit can produce.

If installation instructions calls for 3/4" inlet and outlets then thats what it calls for, failure to follow instructions can and will void any warranty.

Tankless Man 06-10-2007 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmb9862 (Post 48480)
My point is you're not going to be running three showers and a dishwasher at the same time off most tankless units. 1/2in pipe should be enough to carry everything the tankless unit can produce.

........sigh........ Totally out of context. Why do you make refference to running 3 showers and a dishwasher that a tankless cannot supply that load?

3 showers and a dishwasher should have a bout 1 3/4" supply, anything less and the volume of water comming out of the fixtures will be poor TANKLESS OR TANKED OR ELECTRIC, makes NO difference.

Quote:

1/2in pipe should be enough to carry everything the tankless unit can produce
Now your just flat out wrong, not even close to reality and this speaks very clearly to your knowledge and understanding basic plumbing principals. The OP's description of a 1/2" branch/main would NOT pass code in ANY county and is incorrectly plumbed. Not only that, but the pressure and volume would be terrible as I'm sure he knows, when he has more than one ficture open.

To say a tankless heater "should" be able to heat all the water traveling through a 1/2" line is a total lack of understanding just what a tankless can do. Go to any of the higher end tankless web sites and download a manual.....START READING, because you are sadly mistaken.

Tankless Man 06-10-2007 04:10 PM

Quote:

If installation instructions calls for 3/4" inlet and outlets then thats what it calls for, failure to follow instructions can and will void any warranty.
Totally true. Now here is a fine line with respect to code.
If inspected and the setup was as proposed, it would fail inspection because in most instances code says install to manufactures specs. If you do not follow those specs , not only do you blow warranty, you blow code at the same time. There is very little with respect to tankless in the UPC, the refference of "as per manufactures specs" IS the code!

Tankless Man 06-10-2007 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clasact (Post 48471)
I have three Titans in my home and all came with 1/2 fitting .I have had them in for a bit over a year now and have had no problems ,mine are electric and have saved me alot on my gas bill since I got rid of the tank heater,so you might just want to do a bit more reseach before giveing up on them.Oh and their are 5 of us in the house and we havent run out of hot water yet

They have a 1/2" fitting because those things are designed to service 1 fixture. Average fixture is supplied by a 1/2" line. This is why you have 3 of them, probably running at about 30 amps of power.
And hay, if your happy with your setup and it works great, and you are saving money, RIGHT ON! There are alot of places in the country where gas is MUCH more expensive that electricity.

Ron The Plumber 06-10-2007 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tankless Man (Post 48497)
Totally true. Now here is a fine line with respect to code.
If inspected and the setup was as proposed, it would fail inspection because in most instances code says install to manufactures specs. If you do not follow those specs , not only do you blow warranty, you blow code at the same time. There is very little with respect to tankless in the UPC, the refference of "as per manufactures specs" IS the code!

The only thing that will supercede / override a particular code.

Rick Bruner 06-10-2007 04:51 PM

Tankless Water Heater
 
All....
Sincere thanks for all of the info.....gonna take a while to digest it all.....and Tankless Man - thanks for the thread - lots of good info.....should have gone there as well....
The service entry appears to be 3/4"....comes up through the basement slab - within 6" there is a main shut off valve which is where it transitions from 3/4" to 1/2".....the input/output of the existing HW Heater is 3/4" but I had to reduce both at the ends of the 3/4" flex copper pipes when installed.....pressure and flow have both been good....all of the original galvanized plumbing has been upgraded to copper.....seeing as the house is 60 years old I suspect that is why the 1/2"......and I have checked neighbors as well and all are 1/2"......
In Syracuse NY our water comes from Skaneatelas Lake with a hardness of 120mg/l - which is moderately hard....is this a factor as well......?
Thanks,
Rick

clasact 06-10-2007 04:59 PM

yes you are right Tankless man mine do go point to point one for the kitchen and one to each bath that I have finished at this time and yes gas is a lot more then electric around here.Oh and so far as what I know about these systems (of which I checked them out totally before I put them in) you are right on the money with good advice


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11 PM.