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Old 05-05-2008, 10:11 PM   #31
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Tankless water heaters?


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Originally Posted by Piedmont View Post
no one ever takes cold showers instead pressure is reduced.
Unless of course you're talking about a roman tub filler, or a shower valve that isn't pressure balanced, or if you turn on the kitchen faucet trying to get hot water while two people are taking a shower......

I personally would never install one, except perhaps if I had a separate shop with a bathroom in it.

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Old 08-08-2008, 07:59 PM   #32
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if your elect. bill goes up, what's so green about tankless.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:37 PM   #33
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if your elect. bill goes up, what's so green about tankless.
I just completed a conversion from a gas-fired tanked water heater to a whole-house electric HWOD unit.

The conversion cost me about $2500. Yep, that's right, long story....you can find it elsewhere on the forum. I will never recoup that investment in energy savings....

What it did do for me, though, is allow me to disconnect from the local natural gas company. This eliminated a $40/month bill that was enforced even if I used zero cubic feet of their precious natural gas during a month, and if my electric bill goes up $20/month that's a net cash flow gain for me of $20/month. Now there's a chance I might recoup that $2500 in about 10 years!

But wait, it gets even better-----read on!

In addition, my rural electric cooperative will now offer me the "all-electric" rate of 5.5 cents/kilowatt-hour, rather than the standard rate of 8.8 cents per kilowatt-hour, resulting in further savings on my electrical bill that will probably more than offset the $20/month that the bill would probably rise b/c of the HWOD unit--now the payoff is even quicker--I might actually see some return in 8 years or so.

As for being green, well, that wasn't necessarily my motivation, but if the electrical companies are successful in reducing their pollution levels as our state government seems to be insisting they do, I will feel like I have participated in a movement that offered somewhat fewer greenhouse gasses--we'll have to see about that one!

Dugly

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Old 08-09-2008, 04:43 AM   #34
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Tankless water heaters?


I live alone, one bath, no dishwasher. I will need an electric tankless heater. I'm gone about 12-14 hrs a day. So wouldn't I benefit from a tankless?
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Old 08-09-2008, 03:06 PM   #35
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I live alone, one bath, no dishwasher. I will need an electric tankless heater. I'm gone about 12-14 hrs a day. So wouldn't I benefit from a tankless?
IMHO, your situation is one that would justify the tankless HWOD unit. I'm in a similar situation in the house in Kansas that I referenced in my previous post--I'm the only occupant (now) and as such I can schedule the operation of the dishwasher to avoid impacting the performance in the shower (although, having purchased a whole-house unit, that wasn't a problem--I ran both at once just to check and it worked just fine).

My only caution would be to investigate whether you have adequate service to your house, and whether there is sufficient capacity for additional circuitry in your current breaker box.

Believe me, things get very expensive when the answer to those two questions is "No".

Smaller units can run in the $250 range and require less amperage to operate than the larger, whole house units.

Good luck--the only suggestion I'd have is to have an electrician come inspect your electrical system before you purchase your HWOD unit. They really aren't difficult to install yourself if you have basic electrical and plumbing skills.

Dugly
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Old 08-09-2008, 03:31 PM   #36
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Thanks for the advice. My new daughter-in-law is a licensed electrician and I'll get her to help me with that side of my problem....
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Old 08-09-2008, 06:17 PM   #37
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Tankless water heaters?


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I live alone, one bath, no dishwasher. I will need an electric tankless heater. I'm gone about 12-14 hrs a day. So wouldn't I benefit from a tankless?
I would suggest, if you already heat water with a regular, storage-type water heater, that the answer is no.



Once you add up the cost of a tankless electric unit in excess of the cost of a modern standard electric water heater, the cost of running a new heavier circuit (even if yhe labor is heavily discounted) and then calculate the relatively miniscule payback in energy costs achieved by going with the more expensive unit, you'll probably find the unit's higher cost isn't justified.

Further, should your living situation change at any time, or you decide to sell, installing a unit that's sized just for you is foolhearty.
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:25 PM   #38
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I live in Montreal and we are looking for a good tankless electric water heater. I was wondering which models have had a good reputation. I also wanted to know if I should install one for the house or have various units in both bathrooms and one for the kitchen sink? thank you

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Old 08-19-2008, 01:24 PM   #39
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I also wanted to know if I should install one for the house or have various units in both bathrooms and one for the kitchen sink? thank you
Mario
IMHO, Mario, it would be best to install the individual units in the bathrooms and the kitchen--it is my firm belief that the length of pipe through which the hot water must travel soaks up some of the initial heat. This is not a huge problem, but some adjustments of the temperature must be made as the pipes heat up and the water coming through the shower head gets hotter. Had I had the option, I might well have done it with two units closer to the point of use. As it was, I simply replaced the existing gas-fired tank type water heater with a whole-house electrical HWOD. It has worked fine. I do notice a bit of delay when the heater turns on, although it is not significantly greater than with the tank-type heater. I am in the process of insulating the hot water pipes with the foam tube type insulation, if that is inadequate (although it does appear to be workiing OK for now) I will add a layer of fiberglass wrapped insulation to the tubing over the pipes.

As for a reliable brand, one of my friends used a Titan unit and has had absolutely no problems for the past 2 years. The unit I bought came from the Titan company, but it is German produced and the name is Steibel. I'm quite happy with it, but am hot on the trail of a batch solar pre-heater. I feel that during the summer the batch solar water heater would provide adequate hot water and the HWOD unit might never need to turn on.....unless my 25 year old daughter wants to take one of her marathon showers !

Good luck in your quest!

Dugly

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Old 08-20-2008, 08:31 AM   #40
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Tankless water heaters?


Disclaimer: I don't sell, install or service tankless units - I just use them - I have 5 installed at my home. office and rental units. All are now working well, and I intend to purchase more, however we encountered many problems before we achieved satisfactory operation. I have put up a tankless installation FAQ based the problems we encountered and how to avoid them at:

http://paragoninspects.com/tankless-...go-il-faq.html
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Old 08-20-2008, 09:04 AM   #41
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I have put up a tankless installation FAQ based the problems we encountered and how to avoid them at:

http://paragoninspects.com/tankless-...go-il-faq.html
Wow, Michael, that was an interesting read! I feel fortunate to have used an electric unit now, the venting requirements for a gas-fired HWOD unit might have been more than my old house's chimney system would handle. All the electricians and plumbers to whom I spoke recommended gas-fired as the best option, but I suspect they are dealing with new construction for the most part, not projects like my remodeling efforts in this century old house.

Thanks for that info!

Dugly

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Old 01-09-2009, 09:59 AM   #42
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Tankless water heaters?


I know these are old posts. Any updates as to satisfaction with these units????
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:05 AM   #43
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Tankless water heaters?


i've had my electric tankless for 2 years now, wouldn't trade it for anything else!
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:16 PM   #44
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I know these are old posts. Any updates as to satisfaction with these units????
I can report a few impressions (keep in mind that my HWOD is in a vacation home 900 miles away and that I have only spent about 25 days there since I installed the unit):

Positive:

1. Convenience--I can walk into the house after a 20 hour drive on the road and be in a hot shower within 60 seconds, knowing that I have not enriched the POCO to keep a tank of water hot while I was gone.

2. Consistency--the HWOD unit heats water to a temperature that is too high for comfort and will continue to heat it to that level as long as the electricity continues to flow. There is no "cooling off" of the water, as happens as the hot water in a tank-type heater is replaced with cold water, and likewise there is no "recovery" period to allow the tank to recover it's temperature.

Negative:

1. Cost--had I had adequate electrical supply service, I could have probably completed the installation for under $1,000. However, these things can be so power hungry that if you don't have 200 amp supply service, you will need to update. That was my situation, it was very costly.

2. Flow requirement--I like to use "trickles" rather than "sprays". For example, when rinsing dishes I just allow the faucet to trickle a very small stream of water and I rinse each piece under that running water (I capture it in a container and use it later for watering plants). Likewise, when I shower I like a very gentle "rain", both of which necessitate a low flow rate. The HWOD requires a minimum flow of 0.5 gallons per minute in order to trigger the heaters. Anything less and they just pass cold water. That presents a problem even when using more than just a light "rain" in the shower--if the hot water has to be mixed with cold, as in my case, that reduces the flow rate through the HWOD unit to the point that it shuts itself down on occasion--and the resulting shot of cold water is an unpleasant surprise .

3. Inconsistency--the output temperature is dependent on the water's temperature at the inlet of the HWOD. That means that when the water coming into the house is 40*, the heater won't produce water as hot as during the summer when the inlet temperature might be 60*. This causes seasonal differences that do require some adjustments.

For me, right now, the convenience and actual savings realized by terminating my "friendship" with the natural gas company are worth the cost involved with upgrading the service line.

If I had it to do again, rather than using one "whole house" unit, I would have used two smaller point source heaters. My vacation home has two areas with hot water, the bathroom and the kitchen (including the clothes washer). A good friend has a smaller unit he's using as a whole house unit, but with 6 people living under that one roof, he has to schedule showers around dishwashing chores, etc.

I do plan on using a smaller HWOD unit to provide building heat when I install a closed-loop hot-water underfloor radiant heating system in the house.

Hope this has helped......as I generate more time in the house, I'll most assuredly have more impressions to report. Next trip there is scheduled for late April and might well span 90 days.

Dugly
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:09 PM   #45
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Tankless water heaters?


if we as tax payers are bailing out the c e o and the unions should we get help with cheap trucks and money when our work slows up or are we just screw ?

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