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Old 05-13-2012, 10:05 AM   #1
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SumpJet - 2 questions


Hi All!

I just purchased one of these as a backup system:

http://www.libertypumps.com/Products...p=76&s=23&c=14

I have 2 questions about the installation. I understand that pipe diameter doesn't affect water pressure, only volume, so does it matter whether I use 1/2" or 3/4" for the water line to this pump? What is going to cause the pump to drain the pit faster? More pressure or more volume?

Also, where would be the best place to tie into the PVC? At the horizontal run or at the vertical run above that? Should I use a "T" or a "wye"?




Thanks for your help.

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Old 05-13-2012, 12:46 PM   #2
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SumpJet - 2 questions


Not to be discourteous in my reply here, but I am a firm believer in conforming to all equipment manuals/installation instructions to assure good performance of the equipment and to meet warranty and safety guidelines set forth. ...

That said, the installation manual for the pump you have linked to, answers all of the questions you have posted here.

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Old 05-13-2012, 12:52 PM   #3
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SumpJet - 2 questions


The 3/4 inch pipe can deliver more volume of water where it is possible although I am not sure that that will speed up the pumping action. The unknown in the equation is that the pumping action could max out sooner in which case the 3/4 inch pipe is overkill.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 05-13-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:45 PM   #4
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SumpJet - 2 questions


OK the manual does state to use 3/4" pipe for the supply line. I hadn't yet opened the box before posting, so disregard that.

Regarding the discharge pipe it says "Determine the length of discharge pipe required to the discharge exit point". I assume by this that they are saying to tie in to the existing discharge line as close to the exit point (in this case ceiling) as possible? I've seen back up sump pumps installed on a couple TV shows and they have always tied into the discharge right above the sump pit so apparently this specific pump has different guidelines.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:05 PM   #5
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SumpJet - 2 questions


I never tie into the sump pump line.I run a seperate line outside for the backup pump.If you tie onto the sump pump line and the check valve ever fails your water backup is going to fill up your basement instead of keeping it dry.im pretty sure this method is recommended in the instructions.Its not common for a check valve to fail but why risk it.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:24 PM   #6
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SumpJet - 2 questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by Richo View Post
OK the manual does state to use 3/4" pipe for the supply line. I hadn't yet opened the box before posting, so disregard that.

Regarding the discharge pipe it says "Determine the length of discharge pipe required to the discharge exit point". I assume by this that they are saying to tie in to the existing discharge line as close to the exit point (in this case ceiling) as possible? I've seen back up sump pumps installed on a couple TV shows and they have always tied into the discharge right above the sump pit so apparently this specific pump has different guidelines.

The installation manual for your unit linked to, shows a seperate discharge line for the back up pump entirely and the 3/4 inch cold water supply line to it, having a BFPV.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:00 PM   #7
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SumpJet - 2 questions


In a video for an install of a similar unit, the plumber did install a BFPV on the water line, which I intend to do.

The discharge pipe in my house travels out the foundation and back underground to the storm sewer. Short of excavating around the foundation of the house the best I can do is tie into the existing discharge pipe at the very top before it exits the foundation.

Being that there are limitations on the discharge, I guess it would be best for me to contact Liberty Pumps to get specifics on whether or not I can actually use this unit with my existing configuration.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:01 PM   #8
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SumpJet - 2 questions


OK I got some information from Liberty Pumps. They said that this pump needs its own discharge to the storm sewer because if the check valve ever failed on the primary pump the city water would flow back into the sump and flood the basement. Makes complete sense.

Running a separate discharge to the outside is quite an undertaking, for me at least. To begin with, it's a tight space in the basement where the pipe exits, I don't have a hole saw that can make it all the way from the exterior through the spray foam in the box sills, and I would have to rebuild all of the existing discharge piping outside.




Would there be any problem with installing a secondary (back-up if you will) check valve on the primary pump's discharge?

This sump pump is meant only as a backup, mainly in the event of a power outage during a storm. As it is right now, in order for my basement to flood from the backup pump there would have to be a power outage or a failure of the primary pump and at the same time, the check valve would also have to fail. Plus, I would also have to be gone as to not notice the endless running water.


Thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:22 PM   #9
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SumpJet - 2 questions


It will function fine if you tie it into the primary line.i don't recommend it but if you have to get it as far away down stream from the check valve as possible.water takes the path of least resistance and the closer you get it to the outside the better.But I highly don't recommend it but I've been in numerous houses that are piped like this.My local code does not require a back flow and I'd check with your plumbing department to see if one is required in your area.they are pretty expensive and require yearly testing.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:29 PM   #10
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SumpJet - 2 questions


Don't be scared to drill a new hole.A nice sharp hole saw would walk right through the wood plate and insulation.$25 tool to do the job the correct way is well worth it.In my area we splash the backup outlet on the ground rather than in the storm sewer pipe.Purpose being you'll realize something is wrong when you see the water running on the ground rather than it disappearing down the storm.
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:49 PM   #11
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SumpJet - 2 questions


I did think about just routing the backup discharge to the ground outside but do I need to worry about drainage being that it's only for backup purposes? I really don't want to run a sump hose out into the yard.

I have a hold saw but it needs to cut about 10 inches deep to get through the spray foam. I suppose I can check the hardware store for some kind of extension.

Can anyone explain why a secondary check valve wouldn't suffice?

This is a brand new home so I would have to think that everything is current with code.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:02 PM   #12
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SumpJet - 2 questions


Because the second one has the same odds of failure as the first one.Every one I've ever put in has been for the customers piece of mind,so while they are at work or on vacation or whatever, they know for certain that the backup system has them protected.I can't promise them that without doing it the proper way.i could put in 5 check valves and I'd have a hard time sleeping at night wondering if they all work.lol.All check valves will at some point fail.its a flimsy piece of rubber and unless you check it regularly you'll never notice its failing.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:16 PM   #13
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SumpJet - 2 questions


Isn't the check valve what causes the "thunk" when the pump stops?
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:17 PM   #14
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We use a 18" splash block.im sure some water leeches back down into the drain tile at some point but it's code here.18" is far enough to get the majority of water away from the house
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:28 PM   #15
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SumpJet - 2 questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by plumberman134 View Post
We use a 18" splash block.im sure some water leeches back down into the drain tile at some point but it's code here.18" is far enough to get the majority of water away from the house
Sounds like a reasonable and functional way to go.

Thanks for your help.

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