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-   -   Sump pump is pushing water up into the bath tub. Eh? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/sump-pump-pushing-water-up-into-bath-tub-eh-165844/)

roasted 12-07-2012 01:26 PM

Sump pump is pushing water up into the bath tub. Eh?
 
Hey fellas. Dealing with another issue here in our house. We have two sump pumps in the basement, one in the front and one in the back. The one in the back is used continuously since that's what the sink and washer dump into for drainage. All of the plumbing is 1 1/2 inch. The sump pump pipe comes directly up to the ceiling of the basement, 90's off to the left and then Y's into the main drainage pipe. This pipe has a slight angle on it so water trickles to the left. About 5 feet to the left is the drain to the bath tub, which has a 45 up, 45 to make it horizontal again, followed by the trap and ultimately the drain. About 3 feet beyond the bath tub is the main outbound pipe where the toilets are hooked into for drainage, etc.

When the sump pump runs, it must be pushing a lot of pressure through that pipe. I hear the kitchen sink gurgling (which is on the right) as well as the bath tub gurgling and ultimately you see water in the bottom of the tub. I have some mixed thoughts as I'm not entirely sure what is optimal versus what is practical.

Option 1 - Install a dedicated line for the sump pump and Y it into the main line right at the main junction exiting the house. This is all well and good, but at this point the PVC is transitioning over to galvanized and it's smack dab against the wall. Plus, in order for me to Y it in PAST the tub, it's going to require a huge magnitude of work because there are several other junctions coming in at this point, all galvanized. Plus this area goes through a wall, making things a bit more difficult.

Option 2 - This was my initial thought. I began to wonder if I could make some sort of tub in between the 2x10 joists of the ceiling to hold the water. Then from there, based on gravity, it spills into the 1 1/2 inch outbound pipe and flows out accordingly. By doing this, I leave all current plumbing intact. The goal here is the sump pump would disperse all of the water in the pit to the chamber in between the joists. That way, due to the extra room it would gain from the suspended tank, it wouldn't be as pressurized to push through the drain pipe. Then, as I said, gravity takes over and it spills into the pipe exiting the house.

Option 3 - Check valves. I've never used a check valve, but I was asked why I wouldn't consider one. The kitchen sink isn't the issue, it just gurgles (despite the annoyance), but I wonder if I could put a check valve in the bath tub pipe to keep the water from coming up? Is that how check valves work, or am I anticipating using them in this instance in a completely incorrect manner?

Overall, I know option 1 would probably be the one that makes the most sense. Option 1 will however guarantee a huge magnitude of work along the way, which is what makes option 2 (or option 3 if it's applicable) slightly more attractive. That being said, here I am asking the experts. Thanks for your input fellas! :thumbsup:

joecaption 12-07-2012 04:10 PM

SO much easyer to picture what you have with a real picture.

roasted 12-07-2012 04:26 PM

http://imgur.com/a/WZ8rC#1

Right where it transitions from PVC to galvanized, there's a copper pipe coming up on a 45. That's the bath tub drain. Some water from the sump pump always ends up going up that pipe due to the pressure.

You can also see a curved PVC piece just above the sump pump that is now capped. I have no idea exactly what that was, I assume the previous owner made that originally and when they had problems created the longer piece Y'ing into the main pipe further down.

jagans 12-07-2012 04:30 PM

Huh?????
 
Why is your sump pump dumping into your sanitary sewer? You sanitary sewer lines are DWV. That means drain, waste, vent. That means gravity flow, not pressurized flow.

Sump pumps usually just dump outdoors.

roasted 12-07-2012 04:33 PM

jagans, I wish I knew. A lot of things about this house just make me wonder. I redid the bathroom upstairs a few months ago and found out there were no shut off valves for the water lines there. Pretty awesome. A lot of what I'm doing is trying to rationalize what the previous owner's train of thought was. I'm just not sure what to think of it.

The only thing I can think of is the fact that on the back of the house you have the driveway, deck, etc. There's quite a lot of "stuff" there until you actually get out to the yard. I suppose I could always drill a hole on the right side and run a pipe out there. Does it matter that the washer dumps into the sump pump as well? Would that still be considered sanitary to actually go out to a drain field of some sort?

Ishmael 12-07-2012 04:36 PM

Option 4: Run the sump pump discharge out independently to a dry well.

I'm assuming the ejector pump that serves the washing machine doesn't cause any of these issues?

roasted 12-07-2012 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishmael (Post 1068514)
Option 4: Run the sump pump discharge out independently to a dry well.

I'm assuming the ejector pump that serves the washing machine doesn't cause any of these issues?

The washer is the primary issue here. Washer dumps into sump, sump pump eventually forces it up and out, and sure enough the sudsy washer water is what you see in the tub. It only pushes a little bit up, but still...

Ishmael 12-07-2012 04:45 PM

Ah...got it. It's an ugly set up all around. Undersized drains, and inadequate venting.

roasted 12-07-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishmael (Post 1068525)
Ah...got it. It's an ugly set up all around.

I hear ya, man. I'm just doing what I can to work through the issues of it. I've seen some houses where in the basement, the outbound waste drain pipe is on the floor. This one, however, is at eye level when I'm standing down here. I guess since they knew they'd need a lift system for the sink, they figured using the sump pump made sense. Or... something like that? :eek:

jagans 12-07-2012 04:52 PM

Holy Cow
 
It sounds like the previous owners train of thought derailed a long time ago. By washer I guess you mean clothes washer? That is not suppose to dump into your sump pump. Do you have a Septic Tank or are you connected to a City Sewer. Some people dont like dumping detergent and bleach into their septic tank for fear of killing the bugs, but my whole neighborhood is on septic and evryones washer dump into their septic system here.

tylernt 12-07-2012 04:55 PM

I don't like the idea of a check valve. It will be fouled with hair from the tub drain and not work right.

The tub should not tee in with a hard 90 like that. I think that is part of the problem. It should be either a sweep tee, or a 45 wye.

I think you also have a restriction or obstruction in the pipe after the tub. That's probably part of the reason water backs up.

Assuming it's even appropriate to pipe sump discharge to the DWV system, which I doubt, the correct solution is to repipe.

roasted 12-07-2012 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagans (Post 1068532)
It sounds like the previous owners train of thought derailed a long time ago. By washer I guess you mean clothes washer? That is not suppose to dump into your sump pump. Do you have a Septic Tank or are you connected to a City Sewer. Some people dont like dumping detergent and bleach into their septic tank for fear of killing the bugs, but my whole neighborhood is on septic and evryones washer dump into their septic system here.

Well, I wouldn't doubt the derailment thought. We're the second owners of this house and we moved in back in January. They however lived here since it was built in 1958.

Yes, I mean clothes washer. And we're on public sewer - no septic tank.

jagans 12-07-2012 05:04 PM

Washer
 
Give your wife break and move the washer up to the first floor, and pipe it to a laundry sink or a stand tube. Run the sump pump out the basement wall through a sleeve grouted into the wall. foam between the sleeve and the pipe.

judging by the improper use of fittings and unsupported pipe you may want to get a real plumber in there to straighten things out

tylernt 12-07-2012 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagans (Post 1068544)
Give your wife break

judging by the improper use of fittings and unsupported pipe you may want to get a real plumber in there to straighten things out

Yeah sometimes you just gotta rip crap out. We bought a foreclosure with a mix of corroded copper, galv, and illegal PVC supplies. Repiping was a lot of work, but it was The Right Thing To Do and we'll enjoy the benefits for for many years.

jagans 12-07-2012 05:57 PM

Re do
 
Actually,

It is often easier to start with a clean slate and draw a new propely designed and efficient system than to mess with existing crap that is all done as an afterthought. I have re-piped several houses in which the basements looked like they had upside down inside out french horns on the ceiling for supply lines. Learn the theory and stick to the code.


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