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-   -   sump pump issue (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/sump-pump-issue-16379/)

mikehende 01-30-2008 07:00 AM

sump pump issue
 
When we bought this house, in the basement, after a year or so, I noticed water on the floor in the sewer room, called a plumber and he showed me the contraption that the previous owner had put together to save money.

Instead of placing the barrel or container with the sealed cover into the ground, they had dug a hole and cemented it, placed a cheap sump pump into it and made a wooden cover for it. I askd the plumber what's best to do, he told me to get a good pump and place it in there so I got the best pump that Home Depot had which had a lifetime warranty. Every now and then the pump sticks or does not turn on, I am guessing that something is wrong with the setup itself and not the pump's sensor becuase when you jiggle the cord with the sensor, the pump works, I am thinking that maybe in a proper barrel the sensor will have the freedom to move around as it should and won't have any issues?

So I am thinking now of having this done right, I want to take the pump out, clean it, break up the cemented hole, widen it and get the correct barrel or container with cover and do this right but I am have a couple of issues to consider, first, should I use back that same pump or get a new one please?

AllanJ 01-30-2008 08:26 AM

The new pump you bought from Home Depot should still be good if it was not defective from day one.

The purpose of the barrel or container is to keep dirt from falling into the hole and save you from having to re-line the modified hole with cement.

Here are the problems that sump pumps run into:
1. The hole tends to collect mud or leaves or debris,
2. The hole is so small (either narrow or shallow) that the pump has to come on often, expelling only a small amount of water each time. (Some water will always fall back after the pump shuts off).
3. The hole is so shallow that the float and cord don't have enough up and down movement to turn on and turn off without the hole's overflowing.
4. The hole is so narrow that the float rubs against the side.

If you have to jiggle the cord and nothing is rubbing against the hole, try adjusting the float switch level. There are two adjustments, the bottom determines when the pump kicks in and the top determines when the pump shuts off. If the pump will not start, the bottom adjustment must be raised. If the hole overflows, the top adjustment must be lowered. See, also, #3 above.

mikehende 01-30-2008 09:11 AM

Thank you very much for the knowledge! I have to call a plumber who is experienced in installing these pumps even though this time we will be placing the pump in the container it's supposed to be placed into, another problem I am foreseeing is this. The kitchen sink, bathroom sink and shower all have 3 separate lines going into the cemented hole from 3 walls of the hole, now that I will be using the store-bought container which has only 1 inlet, I am guessing the 3 lines will have to be joined somehow to 1 line which will flow into the inlet of the container, what's best here or is there any other way?

AllanJ 01-30-2008 10:24 AM

Oops!

I thought this was a sump pump only for ground water seeping into the basement.

If this pump also has to handle water from the kitchen sink (with bits of food waste), the laundry (with bits of lint), and washbasin (with bits of hair and toothpaste) you cannot use just an ordinary sump pump. The passages inside will gradually clog. The float and cord and sensor could get fouled. You need a pump designed for gray water expelling or even sewage expelling. And the hole may need special treatment to meet building codes. For example possibly need a tight fitting cover.

How much does the hole refill within one minute after the pump shuts off and with no household waste water from the sink, etc? A skinnier outlet pipe (must still meet the pump's recommendation) will reduce the fallback so the hole doesn't have to be so big to provide reasonable time between pump cycles.

(If the hole has to accommodate sink water, etc. I kind of think the hole is not too small except for an extremely amateurish installation)

Check with your plumber before buying the barrel.

mikehende 01-30-2008 10:35 AM

Yes, the hole in the ground or container is needed to collect the water from the shower, bathroom sink and kitchen sink only and pump is needed only to push that water up into the main sewer line which is higher than the basement floor. So maybe we may have the wrong type of pump anyway, will look into this, thanks for the great info and ideas, will report back soon.

Greg_B 02-01-2008 09:31 AM

IF you are running anything but ground water into the pit you need a sealed system.

Years ago I installed a bathroom in the basement of our house where the house drain was about 3 feet above the floor level. The house was constructed before the sewer system, and used to feed into a septic system. I installed a "Sanitary sump", that is a molded sump pit with a gasketed lid seal. It also had gasketed inflow and outflow openings. I ran the toilet, laundry tub, washing machine and shower into this sump. I used a Zoeller cast iron, brass impeller pump. It was designed to handle up to a 2" solid. I think they called it a effluent ejector pump. It used a float switch, and in the right sump pit there was clearance so it could float up and down and not get hung up. I installed a good check valve to prevent back flow. The sump itself was tied into the house vent system to comply with local code venting requirements.

We used the system for 5 years before we moved, never had a problem.

Spend the money and do it right, sewage gas in your house is not a good thing.

GregB

mikehende 02-01-2008 09:37 AM

The plumber who is going to do everything told me that we will get a new appropriate pump with the container, he was scheduled to be here last night but postponed for later today, I will inquire about the check valve you mentioned because I was always concerned about back flow if the pump should malfunction, can you explain to me please exactly what the check valve does?

Greg_B 02-06-2008 01:50 PM

Check valve
 
The check valve is there so that when the pump shuts off, the water in the verticle portion of the pipe does not drain back into the pump basin. Depending on you situation it could be quite a bit of water. It could lead to a constantly running pump. If I remember correctly the Zoeller basin kit had the check valve with it. You also drill a small hole in the outflow pipe between the pump and the check valve. That way when the pump shuts down, the little bit of water in the line up to the check valve drains back, allowing the pump to start the next time without any head pressure.

Hope this helps.

GregB

LawnGuyLandSparky 02-06-2008 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikehende (Post 93476)
Yes, the hole in the ground or container is needed to collect the water from the shower, bathroom sink and kitchen sink only and pump is needed only to push that water up into the main sewer line which is higher than the basement floor. So maybe we may have the wrong type of pump anyway, will look into this, thanks for the great info and ideas, will report back soon.

Where does the toilet flush to?

justdon 02-06-2008 03:27 PM

IF you have drain tile around the house,,is this tied into this system too?? What ever you do,dont mix drainage water with your sewer system it could overflow if your on a septc system and cause failure. and its illegal if your on city sewer. Yes you NEED a grey water pump unless your pumping a toilet too,,then you need an ejector pump!! A REGULAR sump pump is for clean clear water ONLY!!

mikehende 02-06-2008 05:38 PM

Yes I remember now, the existing line has a check valve, thanks.

The toilet I think is run to another pump in another room.

Yes, I realize now that I don't need a regular sump pump.

mikehende 02-14-2008 03:55 PM

A friend of mine who does basic plumbing but has never installed a pump told me he could give me a hand to get this done and that I don't need to hire a pro to do this since the pump does not require any adjusting or configuring, is this true? This is the pump we have in mind

http://www.hechinger.com/hardware/to...se3601a04.html

I am being told that we simply place the pump into the 18x30 Sewage Basin

http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/zcopdfdocs/FM0487.pdf

Would these 2 items above do the trick for my purpose?

redline 02-15-2008 05:58 AM

Does this pump the waste to a sewer or septic tank?

Why is it not possible to plumb the drains to the main drain and eliminate the need for any pump?

mikehende 02-15-2008 06:11 AM

This is to pump the waste to the main sewer line which is higher than the basement floor. I just need to know if this is the correct pump for this purpose and also why the need for such a large sewage basin? Won't one half that size work effectively?

redline 02-15-2008 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikehende (Post 98168)
This is to pump the waste to the main sewer line which is higher than the basement floor.

(...container is needed to collect the water from the shower, bathroom sink and kitchen sink...)

Are the drains for the shower, bathroom sink and kitchen sink higher then the main sewer line? Or are all these fixtures located in the basement area?


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