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Old 03-21-2011, 02:19 PM   #31
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Strange leak - Water Heater?


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Originally Posted by LordOfChaos View Post
yes there is a pressure release valve
Thanks for the confirmation. Did your plumber tell you what purpose the leaking valve in the wall served?

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Old 03-21-2011, 02:32 PM   #32
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Thanks for the confirmation. Did your plumber tell you what purpose the leaking valve in the wall served?
From my understanding (which may not be entirely correct), it was there as an overflow similar to what the expansion tank does on the top of my water heater. When he installed the expansion over a year ago it made the one that was causing problems redundant. I asked if he could have capped it at the outside where the water was draining (instead of cutting a hole in my wall) and he said he thought of that, but was concerned of freezing.

Basically the bad valve is still there, but the drain has been capped since the expansion above the water heater will take care of any excess.

At least that is how I understand it (or not understand it :P)
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:07 PM   #33
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Update if anyone cares.

Apparently there was a valve behind that wall that was bad. Luckily the guy who installed my water heater installed an expansion tank rendering that valve pointless, so he came in, cut a small-ish hole in the wall and capped the pipe. No more leak... $130 out the door though...
A component or device (namely the automatic pressure relieving valve) sealed inside the wall. Not good practice on the part of the home builder or plumber. Leads to unnecessary time and money finding it as well as unnecessary time and money getting to it to fix it.
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:10 PM   #34
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Strange leak - Water Heater?


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A component or device (namely the automatic pressure relieving valve) sealed inside the wall. Not good practice on the part of the home builder or plumber. Leads to unnecessary time and money finding it as well as unnecessary time and money getting to it to fix it.
Well it wasnt sealed inside the wall until I finished the basement, but it was a poor choice of the builder IMO. Its not the only crap I have had to deal with on this house, but I do learn a lot (sometimes the hard way )
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:11 PM   #35
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Well it wasnt sealed inside the wall until I finished the basement, but it was a poor choice of the builder IMO. Its not the only crap I have had to deal with on this house, but I do learn a lot (sometimes the hard way )
I'm still confused what it was that was leaking. Was it the discharge for the T&P or not?
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:08 PM   #36
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I'm still confused what it was that was leaking. Was it the discharge for the T&P or not?
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:15 PM   #37
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Strange leak - Water Heater?


Did he say why you had a valve behind the wall that was connected to a pipe that terminated outside???
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:20 PM   #38
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Yeah sorry guys, I wish I knew / understood the whole thing a little better.

All I know is that apparently there was a valve that would drain outside in some instance that was rendered redundant with the installation of the expansion tank. This valve failed and was causing water to pour from that drain. He cut the pipe and capped it below the valve that failed since he didnt need to repair it due to it being redundant.

I trust the fix even if I dont understand it. I just wish I knew enough to ask all these questions in case someone else has a similar issue. Hopefully though I just had a shady home builder/plumber and no one else will deal with something so strange.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:23 PM   #39
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Yeah sorry guys, I wish I knew / understood the whole thing a little better.

All I know is that apparently there was a valve that would drain outside in some instance that was rendered redundant with the installation of the expansion tank. This valve failed and was causing water to pour from that drain. He cut the pipe and capped it below the valve that failed since he didnt need to repair it due to it being redundant.

I trust the fix even if I dont understand it. I just wish I knew enough to ask all these questions in case someone else has a similar issue. Hopefully though I just had a shady home builder/plumber and no one else will deal with something so strange.
So if I'm understanding correctly when you say the valves were "redundant", there was more than 1 valve in that line. If that is the discharge for the T&P, how does it discharge now if it has been capped off?

How did he get the water to stop before soldering a cap?
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:52 PM   #40
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Strange leak - Water Heater?


Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfChaos View Post
Yeah sorry guys, I wish I knew / understood the whole thing a little better.

All I know is that apparently there was a valve that would drain outside in some instance that was rendered redundant with the installation of the expansion tank. This valve failed and was causing water to pour from that drain. He cut the pipe and capped it below the valve that failed since he didnt need to repair it due to it being redundant.

I trust the fix even if I dont understand it. I just wish I knew enough to ask all these questions in case someone else has a similar issue. Hopefully though I just had a shady home builder/plumber and no one else will deal with something so strange.
Since the water coming out of the spout was cold, and if it was said to be redundant to the installation of your new expansion tank, then that valve must have been connected to the cold water inlet to your water heater. I assume that if that is true, then you probably have (or had) a heat trap check valve on your cold water inlet line. That would prevent water from your heater to back feed into your cold water line. So installing an expansion tank in the cold water line to the heater made that valve "redundant".

But the whole thing still doesn't make sense to me. If opening that "redundant" valve relieved pressure in the heater, opening any hot water faucet would have done the same thing. Plus, who goes around opening a valve to relieve pressure in a water heater on a daily basis?

It sure is a mystery why that valve was installed in the first place.

HRG

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Old 03-21-2011, 07:22 PM   #41
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I really think most of us are afraid your T/P valve was capped that's why we keep asking.

Did a Registered licensed plumber do the work??

Last edited by COLDIRON; 03-21-2011 at 07:23 PM. Reason: added info.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:20 PM   #42
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Strange leak - Water Heater?


There is certainly weird stuff going on with the plumbing explanations and maybe I'm having a seniors moment but if everyone agrees that ...
He has a working hot water tank and
if the water coming out of the outside pipe end was cold, the pipe draining directly from the P&T valve was cold, opening up the P&T valve made no difference to the flow of water coming out of the pipe, then obviously this was never a P&T valve issue.

I don't get the reasoning for worrying about a P&T being capped if it was never the cause of the problem and if whatever the plumber did cap stopped the water from draining out the pipe?
If anyone worries that a plumber capped the cause of the water flow as well as capping the P&T drain line then just a flick of the P&T release lever will demonstrate whether that is true or not.

Last edited by how; 03-21-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:50 PM   #43
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Since the water coming out of the spout was cold, and if it was said to be redundant to the installation of your new expansion tank, then that valve must have been connected to the cold water inlet to your water heater. I assume that if that is true, then you probably have (or had) a heat trap check valve on your cold water inlet line. That would prevent water from your heater to back feed into your cold water line. So installing an expansion tank in the cold water line to the heater made that valve "redundant".

But the whole thing still doesn't make sense to me. If opening that "redundant" valve relieved pressure in the heater, opening any hot water faucet would have done the same thing. Plus, who goes around opening a valve to relieve pressure in a water heater on a daily basis?

It sure is a mystery why that valve was installed in the first place.
Up to now I was thinking that the "redundant" valve was a manual valve. Now I'm assuming it's a secondary PRV that is Tee'd off from the cold water inlet pipe to your water heater, and was set to open at a lower temperature than the PRV that's mounted above your heater. As such it was a poor substitute for an expansion tank.

There are several negatives using that solution:
1. It will release some water every day and thus waste water.
2. Impurities in the water will eventually cause that valve to fail since it is opening and closing every day.

Item-2 is probably why your valve failed if it is a secondary pressure relief valve set at a lower relief pressure. The expansion tank was the correct solution.

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Old 03-21-2011, 10:32 PM   #44
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Strange leak - Water Heater?


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I don't get the reasoning for worrying about a P&T being capped if it was never the cause of the problem and if whatever the plumber did cap stopped the water from draining out the pipe?
If anyone worries that a plumber capped the cause of the water flow as well as capping the P&T drain line then just a flick of the P&T release lever will demonstrate whether that is true or not.
First off, it's called a T&P not P&T (Temperature & Pressure Relief Valve). If someone else having an issue does a Google search it's best to have it properly spelled (or initialized in this case). The video in the initial post, appears to show a line that discharges outside the house. A discharge line is typically there for a reason. If it was the discharge for the T&P valve this could be a potentially dangerous situation. It's hard to determine without accurate information what has actually been capped off. We're all just trying to make sure it was properly diagnosed. I think I can speak for others here, when I say there's still a bit of confusion.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:36 AM   #45
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The "redundant" T&P valve that gushed cold water would never have occasion to trip on temperature, only on pressure.

If you already have an expansion tank and a pressure relief valve or a T&P valve trips (on pressure) anyway, you may need to recalibrate the expansion tank.

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Last edited by AllanJ; 03-22-2011 at 10:43 AM.
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