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Solder not working it's way to where I need it.

6K views 25 replies 12 participants last post by  chipperi 
#1 ·
I am doing a test solder on a piece of copper pipe. I am using a microtorch and I am using a laser thermometer to test the temperature of the pipe.

The pipe is getting to above 700 degrees. The melting temp of the solder (Lenox) is 419 degrees. Yes I cleaned, sandpapered and fluxed the area real well but I cannot move the solder around at all. The solder does eventually drop off of the roll (melted) but it does not flow anywhere. Do I need more flux, more heat? Thanks.
 
#3 ·
It sounds like you're getting it to hot. But... after you clean both pieces make sure you don't touch them with your fingers. The oil in your skin will contaminate the joint. Both pieces need flux. Now you're ready to solder. Only heat the fitting and NOT the pipe. You don't need a tremendous amount of heat, only enough to melt the solder. I always wait until I see the flame on the backside of the pipe turn color. (usually green) Now remove your flame and add solder. It will take practice but you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly. If you get the pipe to hot it won't draw the solder and will just run off the pipe. Good luck.
 
#7 ·
The micro torch might (I don't know for sure) take too long to get the fitting hot enough, even though it is capable of getting it hot enough...Meanwhile your solder is liquifying, boiling, and disappearing. When soldering pipe, timing is critical. Too hot too quick isn't good but too hot (or even perfect heat) too slow isn't good either.

You can get a propane torch for very little money...Maybe $20. I'd keep the micro torch for electrical soldering and get an inexpensive propane torch for soldering copper plumbing fittings.
 
#12 ·
Not bread crumbs, bread! Lots of it. Use white bread only (wheat pieces will get caught in aerators, white bread won't). Pull off the crust and ball it up tightly about the size of a nickel. Jam it into the pipe where the water's coming from and push it 3 or 4" up the pipe with a pencil or something.

When you turn the water back on the doughball will liquify and will instanty run out of the lines. It works great.
 
#9 ·
Some say you can stick a breada crumb in there to absorb the moisture and it will wash away.
I always open a tap down line to let the water flow back and drain. Worst acse you could try a aiming a hair dryer in there or wad a clean dry rag into the joint but that seems extreme unless your joint is working as a trap between two higher spots.
 
#10 ·
get any water out, get rid of the micro torch, heat the fitting, if its too hot youl figure it out as the solder will just run like water, maybe like 7 seconds on a 3/4 inch line is about all you need to get started .than heat breifly as needed to keep it flowing. use the flux brush with some flux on it to cool/ clean the joint after you are done
 
#13 ·
I tried once to heat a pipe that still had some water left in it. I opened all the faucets and tried draining the pipe but when you heat the pipe it makes any little bit of water run towards the place your heating and even a little drop will ruin the joint. I've never tried the bread trick but next time I run into a pipe that still has water in it I will try that. If water is what is causing your problems you wouldn't believe how much can come out when you heat it even after you think you drained it all. Other than that everyone else gave good help on soldering. good luck
 
#15 ·
There are a number of spots the water is probably "sitting" in the pipes. I was amazed at how much water ran out of the pipes after everything was turned off and "drained". Seems like when you heat the pipe up the water flows towards the joint your working on. Just remember to take the screens off the faucets and anything down line from where you are soldering when you flush the bread out of the lines.
 
#16 ·
If you dilly dally too long or if you got the pipe too hot the flux will have boiled away and the surfaces of the pipe inside will have started to oxidize. Now the solder won't go in and stick. Your best choice is to undo the pipes, sand the ends again, and flux again. Part of the mating surfaces may have been coated with solder by now and you will have to heat up the pipes prior to rejoining them to get them to fit together again.

A common mistake is, after seeing the solder not soak in, to just cover the visible part of the joint with solder and call it a day. Then a year later water hammer cracked the surface of the solder and water leaks between the mating surfaces inside the joint that the solder never soaked into.
 
#19 ·
"thekctermite";

I owe you a beer. That bread trick...did the trick. I was able to kep the pipe bone dry long enough for me to re-ream, re-flux, and re-solder that side of the connection. It looks and works great (knock on wood). And the bread dissolved like you said. THANKS!!!
Glad to hear it worked out. That trick sure raises peoples' eyebrows and they definately question your credibility when you're jamming bread into their pipes! But it does work.
 
#20 ·
If your on the ground floor soldering make sure you open any faucets on the second floor if there is one and open another below the work area. if those shut offs are holding, your water could be coming from those pipes on the second floor if you didn't open the faucet on the higher floor. BOB
 
#21 ·
I used bread one time almost twenty years ago. It's a DIY'er trick but can cause major problems. I'm glad it worked for you though, hope it stays working. Run all your faucets and flush your toilets to test.
A simple tool called a "jet swet" would have solved the problem instantly, without the risk of using bread.:thumbsup:
 
#22 ·
What kind of problems/risks could it possibly have? The bread pretty much instantly liquifies and will evacuate even the most restrictive valve or strainer in a matter of seconds. If wheat bread was used I can see that it would be a problem because the seeds would get caught.

I've done it well over 100 times and never once had any sort of problem. It may be a good DIYer trick, but I know a lot of plumbing pros that use and recommend it...That's how I learned it years ago.

The Jet Swet is a cool product but at over $40 per pipe size it isn't something that most DIYers are going to invest in.
 
#24 · (Edited)
you may have a worn out seat or washer on your main water valve you can try using a paair of channel locks on the valve handle to get it to turn off tighter just dont go nuts maybe youll get about an eigth of a turn and that may do it. otherwise youll have to go to whereever your main shuts off at the street and turn it off there. if you havent seen it yet, theres a good how to solder copper pipes in the how to section of the forums on the main page


sorry i didnt realize there was a second page to this thread when i replied glad you got it taken care of
 
#25 ·
Those jet swet look pretty nice but how do you solder both sides of your joint? If you are putting a coupling or any other fitting between two lengths of pipe it seems like you could solder the fitting to the old section of pipe using the jet swet but how do you stop the water from entering while soldering the new section of pipe onto the fitting?
 
#26 ·
The Bread idea in the pipe really does work, it dissolves as soon as you turn the water back on.

Now as for the solder not flowing:

1st: Take a look at your can of flux and make sure it says "Soldering Flux".

I did this once by mistake and at home depot and lowes they have 2 types of flux sitting right next to each other. The second I believe is called tinning flux or something like that and you wont get solder to flow into the joint with it.

2nd: Throw away that cheap micro torch and get your self a good propane or acetylene torch.

Sand and flux both the pipe and fitting good, get the joint cherry, and touch the solder to it and it should flow clean around the joint. Ez squeezy
 
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