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Old 10-18-2012, 11:36 AM   #1
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


So I started pulling up tile on a basement bathroom shower pan to find out it had a sloped concrete shower pan and what looks like a drain with no p trap.

I shined a flashlight down to see if there was any water and couldn't see any. I also couldn't see a bend in the pipe so I'm assuming there is no P trap.

My question is this. How tough of a job is this going to be?
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:21 PM   #2
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


I mean to ask how tough will it be, or what are the steps involved with, to install a P trap and make it a proper plumbing set up?

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Old 10-18-2012, 02:40 PM   #3
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


You will have to dig around the drain, large enough to work. Then dig down deep enough to install the P trap. Simple but will take some work.

There may already be one there. Was the shower build after the fact? IF there was never any smell from the drain there might be a p trap just further down and not right under the drain......

Last edited by pwgsx; 10-18-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:04 PM   #4
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by pwgsx View Post
You will have to dig around the drain, large enough to work. Then dig down deep enough to install the P trap. Simple but will take some work.

There may already be one there. Was the shower build after the fact? IF there was never any smell from the drain there might be a p trap just further down and not right under the drain......
I assume that the shower was put in after house was built. Mainly because of the age and types of finishes used would suggest a rather modern <10 years old. The previous owner's boyfriend did concrete. Great for stamped back patio, maybe not so good for shower curb or pan.

What kind of smell would I be noticing? I smelled a little bit of maybe a damp dirt smell when I was busting up tile last night but I assumed that was the thinset or grout or small amount of mold on the bottoms of the tiles. What would sewer gas smell like and how do I check to see if the trap is much lower than the drain?
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:14 PM   #5
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


This is a close up picture of the drain. There was only a metal screen on it. Seen in the second picture leaning on the wall framing.
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:10 PM   #6
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


Im guessing the pipe was always there as a shower or maybe a floor drain turned into a shower drain. Either way there would/should be a trap there. Sewer gas smells like nasty s#!t. You would know for sure and the whole basement would smell.

A cement shower curb is actually fine to use. Its the type of shower pan that needs attention. If you do not use a premade shower pan I would use brick blocks for a curb and do a single layer of deck mud as your slope. Then use a paint on waterproof membrane on your walls which will be lined in cement board as well as the membrane on the floor to the drain. Search Hydroban, Redguard to get a idea on how its used.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:30 PM   #7
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


If you are replacing the shower---open the floor with an electric jack hammer or smaller chipping hammer---

Dig out the pipe and find the lateral line---cut that and remove the old drain---boot on with a rubber Fernco fitting --then use PVC to add your trap and riser---2 inch pipe is needed for a shower---

An hour or twos work---more time spent getting the jack hammer and parts---
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:16 PM   #8
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by oh'mike
If you are replacing the shower---open the floor with an electric jack hammer or smaller chipping hammer---

Dig out the pipe and find the lateral line---cut that and remove the old drain---boot on with a rubber Fernco fitting --then use PVC to add your trap and riser---2 inch pipe is needed for a shower---

An hour or twos work---more time spent getting the jack hammer and parts---
Whew! i vaccumed out some debris and ended up finding a trap. All is well! Now onto building this shower pad.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:40 AM   #9
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


I would change it just to get rid of the rusty old riser pipe and crusty old P-trap---those really grab hair and soap scum.

It's your call----I never leave deteriorated parts under a fancy new installation---
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:43 AM   #10
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


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I would change it just to get rid of the rusty old riser pipe and crusty old P-trap---those really grab hair and soap scum.

It's your call----I never leave deteriorated parts under a fancy new installation---
Dang you're really putting some passive aggressive, calling out my man hood, type of tone in your typing. Deep down I know you're right. Ok so here are a couple of questions because I've never replace a P trap in concrete. Plenty in air sinks and what not but not like this.

1) I break up the concrete with a jack hammer or electric chisel. I dont have one. Will a hammer and masonry chisel work? How about a sledge hammer?

2) Once I dig down and tear out that old pipe do I replace it with PVC?

3) If PVC can I then pour my new concrete right up to the PVC (like a form) or do I need something else coating it?

4) how tall should I leave the riser? Can I leave it well above grade and then cut if to height once I build my pad?

5) Speaking of building my pad, since I have to pour some concrete anyway should I just fix the grade of the pad with concrete and then do some redgaurd waterseal membrate or kerdi?

6) what type of drain should I use?

Thanks so much for all your expertise. I think getting these questions answered will get me well on my way to getting that bathroom closer to completion this weekend.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:15 AM   #11
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


To answer some of your questions. You will be there forever trying to hit the cement with a hammer. Rent a power tool for 4 hrs and be done with it. You replace it with pvc. I would pack the hole back up with wet sand and then fill the top 4 inches with cement flush with your cement foundation. You need deck mud for the slope, not regular cement. I would use the clamping style drain as well. You can get a square drain cover if you wish. I would use redguard or hydroban, Im not a fan of Kerdi.

Let me see if I have some pics to show you.....
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:32 AM   #12
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


THis is the only pic I got, the area was a bathtub and I removed it and turned it into a shower. The pic showes the lip of the drain level with the foundation. The deck mud is a few inches higher, sloped towards the drain with a divot area around it. The green is HYDROBAN painted on all surfaces to the drain. The divot area is then filled with stone or tile spacers to keep the weep holes free. Then deck mud is used to make that area level. You do not hydroban this area.

check this site out for more pics and ideas......

http://www.johnbridge.com/how-to/deck-mud/


http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ighlight=divot
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:05 AM   #13
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by pwgsx View Post
To answer some of your questions. You will be there forever trying to hit the cement with a hammer. Rent a power tool for 4 hrs and be done with it. You replace it with pvc. I would pack the hole back up with wet sand and then fill the top 4 inches with cement flush with your cement foundation. You need deck mud for the slope, not regular cement. I would use the clamping style drain as well. You can get a square drain cover if you wish. I would use redguard or hydroban, Im not a fan of Kerdi.

Let me see if I have some pics to show you.....
One question. Why would you use wet sand to fill the hole? wouldn't that settle over time when it dried out?
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:08 AM   #14
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


Thats what I was told to use by all the tile people. They said if you cement the whole hole, it would be a pain in the @ss to try and work on down the road if you had to. I asked the same question and was told since its under the slab, it will always be semi moist and not to worry. 2 years and I dont have any issues. I Think its just a void filler as the 4 inches of cement on top is more than enough to plug the hole from sinking.
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:12 AM   #15
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Shower Drain W/O P Trap Help!!!


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Thats what I was told to use by all the tile people. They said if you cement the whole hole, it would be a pain in the @ss to try and work on down the road if you had to. I asked the same question and was told since its under the slab, it will always be semi moist and not to worry. 2 years and I dont have any issues. I Think its just a void filler as the 4 inches of cement on top is more than enough to plug the hole from sinking.
Ok that makes sense. Do you think I can just put back the same dirt that I took out of the hole when I dig down to the drain?

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