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-   -   Short-Cycling among other problems. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/short-cycling-among-other-problems-141997/)

Nikolasmor 04-29-2012 03:43 PM

Short-Cycling among other problems.
 
Hi there, First post and it looks like a great and active site.

We bought a foreclosure 1 year ago that has aged appliances in it.
We immediately bought new kitchen appliances, and washer/dryer.

We figured we would wait on the Water Softener, Filtration System, and Hot Water Heater.

Well, my wife was doing laundry and noticed a slow leak coming from the "hot water heater" Every timed I looked there was nothing. Since we wanted a new one anyways I went ahead and picked up the GE GeoSpring Hybrid Hot Water Heater.

Long story short, it was an overflow/open pipe coming off the Pressure Tank that had a super slow drip every once in a while. While looking I noticed that the Well Pump was short cycling.

I did some reading and tested the pressure...it's at 28. The Square D is a 30/50.

So today I just turned off the pump, turned on the faucet, and waited 4-5 minutes for the water to finish. (Is that the first sign my bladder is broken?)

When it was done I tested the pressure and it was a 0. I pumped it up but it would not got above 19. So I closed the faucet , turned the pump back on and checked the pressure again. It is at 24. I set it at 28.

I am a first time homeowner and not really plumbing inclined.

Does it sound like my bladder is broken/busted? If so, What do you recommend as a replacement..I live with my Wife and 3 Daughters so bigger may be better.
I was thinking maybe one of the bigger Well-X-Trol's

What else could be the issue?

jaydevries 04-29-2012 04:49 PM

turn on pump until pressure is built up then push in schrader valve "tire valve" on top of pressure tank if water comes out need new pressure tank due to bladder being broke

Nikolasmor 04-29-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydevries (Post 910342)
turn on pump until pressure is built up then push in schrader valve "tire valve" on top of pressure tank if water comes out need new pressure tank due to bladder being broke

Air comes out....thats one of the only things keeping me from buying a new tank.

jaydevries 04-29-2012 05:04 PM

ok so is pump visable or in well casing"pipe that is in ground"

jaydevries 04-29-2012 05:11 PM

check this link out
http://inspectapedia.com/water/pumprepair.htm

Nikolasmor 04-29-2012 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydevries (Post 910361)
ok so is pump visable or in well casing"pipe that is in ground"

I can't see the actual pump, the pipe comes in from the wall to the Square D box

jaydevries 04-29-2012 06:02 PM

did you read through link to give you things to check

Daniel Holzman 04-29-2012 06:55 PM

There are two obvious things to check. You need a reliable gage on the system, which should be near the well T that feeds water into the storage tank. Sometimes the gage breaks, or the (typically 3/8 inch pipe) that feeds the gage gunks up and needs to be replaced. Once you have a reliable gage on the system, you need to verify that the pump controller is actually set correctly, typically it turns on at about 40 psi and turns off at about 60 psi. You can't tell if the controller is working unless the gage is working.

If the pump controller is not working correctly, you may be able to adjust it via a couple of screws that are accessible if you remove the cover. One screw adjusts the turn on pressure, one adjusts the turn off pressure, there is generally a diagram inside the housing. Be careful, this is probably a 240 volt pump, you can get a hell of a shock if your short across the contacts with the top off.

If you are unable to adjust the controller, you probably need to replace it. This is a pretty inexpensive part, and easy to replace if you understand something about wiring. Take a picture of the wiring before you take it apart, others on this forum have had unfortunate problems miswiring their pump controllers.

Nikolasmor 04-29-2012 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman (Post 910451)
There are two obvious things to check. You need a reliable gage on the system, which should be near the well T that feeds water into the storage tank. Sometimes the gage breaks, or the (typically 3/8 inch pipe) that feeds the gage gunks up and needs to be replaced. Once you have a reliable gage on the system, you need to verify that the pump controller is actually set correctly, typically it turns on at about 40 psi and turns off at about 60 psi. You can't tell if the controller is working unless the gage is working.

If the pump controller is not working correctly, you may be able to adjust it via a couple of screws that are accessible if you remove the cover. One screw adjusts the turn on pressure, one adjusts the turn off pressure, there is generally a diagram inside the housing. Be careful, this is probably a 240 volt pump, you can get a hell of a shock if your short across the contacts with the top off.

If you are unable to adjust the controller, you probably need to replace it. This is a pretty inexpensive part, and easy to replace if you understand something about wiring. Take a picture of the wiring before you take it apart, others on this forum have had unfortunate problems miswiring their pump controllers.

I have been reading through the link. I did a full drain with the pump off, lots of fun sediment came through each drain the first few minutes they were on. The water is back to clear now.


It has a working gauge. My Square D is the 30/50 model and the pump controller and gauge work together with this. It kicks on right about 30, rises slowly at first then faster before it kicks off at 50.

AllanJ 04-29-2012 09:54 PM

Try to recalibrate the pressure tank.

To do this turn off the pump, turn off the water heater heating, and open a cold faucet.

Using a hand pump, pump air into the Schrader valve on top of the pressure tank. Try to maintain 5 PSI. Wait for the faucet to stop flowing.

Close the faucet and pump up the pressure tank to around 25 PSI (a little below the pump turn on pressure.)

Remove the hand pump and turn on the water pump. Open a hot faucet and wait for a steady flow of water to run about half a minute. Then turn the water heater heat back on.

joecaption 04-30-2012 12:23 AM

http://inspectapedia.com/water/WaterTankAir2.htm

Nikolasmor 04-30-2012 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 910696)

I will try that tonight.

Joe - I tried that and the most pressure I could pump in was about 19lbs, its almost as if it kept leaking back down before the next pump. I hit the bicycle pump 50 times in a row and still...19lbs max.

AllanJ 04-30-2012 06:46 AM

If, after you emptied the pressure tank, you were unable to pressurize the system manually as high as pump turn on (19 PSI versus a turn on of 30) then the pump may still work acceptably.

After turning the water pump back on, observe the pressure gauge for several minutes. If you keep losing pressure when no one is using water, you may have a bad check valve upstream of the pressure tank or even a problem with the pump.

If the pump runs at least 60 seconds with the gauge rising slowly from the turn on pressure to the turn off pressure then the pressure tank is probably not at fault.

You would need to lower the turn on pressure to keep the pump from coming on too often, while waiting to repair or replace parts.

Nikolasmor 04-30-2012 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanJ (Post 910752)
If, after you emptied the pressure tank, you were unable to pressurize the system manually as high as pump turn on (19 PSI versus a turn on of 30) then the pump may still work acceptably.

After turning the water pump back on, observe the pressure gauge for several minutes. If you keep losing pressure when no one is using water, you may have a bad check valve upstream of the pressure tank or even a problem with the pump.

If the pump runs at least 60 seconds with the gauge rising slowly from the turn on pressure to the turn off pressure then the pressure tank is probably not at fault.

You would need to lower the turn on pressure to keep the pump from coming on too often, while waiting to repair or replace parts.

Thanks Allen, I'll check that tonight. Once the water is in I can set the pressure tank to 28 and it will hold just fine. So I should set the spring screw for it come on at a different PSI or set the pressure in the tank lower?

AllanJ 05-01-2012 11:16 AM

To change the pump turn on pressure and turn off pressure, use the screws or springs or sliders or dials provided for that purpose. Not the pressure tank air valve.


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