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Jim F 03-23-2010 12:09 AM

Rerouting shower drain for bathtub.
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I'm racking my brain over this one. The only modification I am making over the original drain system done in 1990 is that I am trying to hook up a bathtub drain, located on the wall opposite the toilet where the original shower drain was over closer to the wall opposite the vanity. Everything was served by the one main vent. The vanity sink drains into the vent. The shower and laundry tee in just next to the cleanout and they rely on the main stack vent. I've never noticed any drainage issues. My plumber hasn't seen it but told me over the phone that some guys take liberties with the five foot rule. Is this legal in NY the way it is? If not how did the original contractor get away with it?

To add to my headaches, I've read somewhere that I should have gotten a building permit before I even started any of this. So if I go to get this inspected, what will happen if I don't have a building permit? Is it too late to get a permit now? I should have known better but I really never even considered this.

The dryer vent is only temporary as the washer and dryer were moved down to the basement while I renovate the laundry area and hallway that are adjacent to the bathroom and also suffered floor damage.

oh'mike 03-23-2010 05:38 AM

Hi Jim---I don't like to hear you worrying like this--You are doing fine--Your joist repairs look nice and strong the plumbings almost there---

All you have to do is figure out the route for a vent---
I see three possible routes--In the crawl space--or up the bathroom wall and across the ceiling--into the attic and into the vent stack.

The PVC is cheap enough-- the decision would be made on which way has the fewest --and easiest holes to drill.

Vent pipes need to be self draining--no low spots to trap water--

In the crawl you could drill holes back to the main vent--Those doubled joists will be a pain to drill--but do-able.

Or you could work the vent into the wall of the bath and go across the ceiling of the bath--
It's hard to tell from here which route will be easier.

I suggest that you DO get proper venting in now. No one will find fault with your work if you do it right.

Is it easier to punch that vent pipe all the way to the attic? Making up the connection in an open attic might be easier---

take a walk and think this through. --And relax a bit--worry gives you wrinkles--

Just think--"I need to get air into that drain---It starts in the attic--what's the easiest route to get from the attic to that damn drain--" It's just a puzzle--take a walk,get out of the house for a few minutes and the answer will come to you----MIKE----

Jim F 03-23-2010 06:01 AM

It's the washer that needs the vent, not the tub right? I think my tub is close enought to the existing vent.

oh'mike 03-23-2010 06:23 AM

As near as I can figure-- one vent will serve both openings--they are close enough to each other------It's just a matter of finding a painless route to run the vent. -Mike-

Alan 03-23-2010 09:19 AM

I don't want to be rude, and I don't know what your local code says, but none of that would fly around here.

Picture 1 : I don't see a vent on that line anywhere between the trap and where it enters the main. :huh:

Picture 2 : that looks like a running trap and they don't allow those here. It also appears from your diagram that it's the trap for the laundry? They also don't allow them below floor where i'm at.

Picture 3 : That's what's referred to as a 'dirty arm', except the vent has to be taken off above where the trap will be, meaning the entire thing should be horizontal......

That's my interpretation of your pictures based on UPC, so it could be totally baseless. :thumbup:

Jim F 03-23-2010 06:24 PM

I don't consider it rude at all Alan. Every bit of critical input is helpful. Best to know now before I glue. I'm not sure if it flies around here either but somehow the original contractor got it past inspection. I know they had a building permit so I'm assuming an inspection followed. The only modifications I have proposed so far are to relocate the tub drain and p trap a few feet over from where the shower originally was and to move the laundry p trap back closer to the drain pipe, the builders had it on the tee end. I had to look up "running trap". If I understand you correctly, I will need to attach this trap directly to the vertical drop of my laundry drain and remove the 6" of straight run to make it a proper p trap. Is that correct? I can do that. The vertical pipe for the laundry drain actually dropped a couple of inches and the trap for the tub is only held in place with duct tape for the picture. I plan to raise these to the level I found them which is just about at the bottom of the joists. Is that at the right level or are you saying that my laundry trap needs to be above the subfloor level? What you said about the dirty arm being level makes sense to me. The only thing I can think of is that they put the down slope in it to make it drain faster.

I brought pictures in to my plumber and he said the same thing you said Mike. That one vent can serve both drains. He also suggested that I replace the 1.5 inch pipe with 2 inch. So at this point I am conteplating changing out 1.5 for two in the horizontal run. Tee in the 1.5 tub drain to that and running 2" up to the laundry hose and a 1.5 vent up the wall that partitions the hallway adjacent to the tub drain up into the attic space and teeing into the main stack and tying that into both drains underneath.

oh'mike 03-23-2010 06:36 PM

Alan--Thank you--

Jim---it sounds like you have a solution--(you sound a bit more relaxed,too)--Mike---

Jim F 03-23-2010 06:48 PM

Yes, definately more relaxed witha plan in mind. Thanks Mike. It was helpful talking to my plumber as well. Coincidentally, he had a recent hospital visit so I was able to give, as well as get advice.

oh'mike 03-23-2010 07:20 PM

There are a lot of decent people that we meet in a lifetime.

Sounds like your plumber is one of them.----Mike-----

My folks were from New York--My fathers side--Long Island
My mothers--Hamburg. I always liked New York!

plummen 03-23-2010 09:43 PM

why is the san tee located so low in relation to the waste arm and why did you hack up the floor joists instead of just drilling holes and running lines through them?
and the 90s all stuck together to make up that running trap definately sets off lots of alarms inmy head also :wink:

Jim F 03-23-2010 10:32 PM

Those are the sistered on joists Plummen. It was done that way by the contractor to save time and money over cutting, removing and reinstalling those preexisting 3/4 pipes that serve my hot water heating system. The joists are sistered on both sides of the original and the sistering runs all the way across. I had that done by a contractor because I felt is was beyone my ability to reenforce and relevel that floor myself, especially the releveling part. Having seen it done once though, I may try it on my upstairs bathroom myself. If you could stand on those joists, you would see that the integrety is not compromised by those cuts. I did remove the copper supply lines and plan to replace them myself with Pex and for those I did drill holes in the joists. To put it in perspective, the removal and replacement of all the water lines was estimated at $720.00. Is there something better to use for the traps than 90's? I was just trying to follow the model set up by the original plumber.

Mike, when I find someone that knows their stuff I stick with them. I've used this plumber ever since he installed my boiler in '04. I should post the pictures of the pipework. He even takes the time to wipe the drips off his sweat joints. He even had the foresight to provid a a future tee for an indirect fired hot water tank which I had him install 4 years later.

plummen 03-24-2010 10:40 PM

you can buy a pre made glue together trap,but it should be installed above the floor where its more readily accesible.
trying to run a cable through a running trap is tough to say the least :wink:

Jim F 03-24-2010 11:54 PM

A tub trap can't be installed above the floor though, that's physically impossible right?

plummen 03-25-2010 07:13 AM

right,didnt notice it was the tub trap.
the tub trap should still be located directly under the waste/overflow flow though,not a running trap :)

Jim F 03-25-2010 02:49 PM

Yep I've done away with the running trap now that I know what a running trap is.:thumbup:

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