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Old 01-04-2013, 12:53 PM   #31
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Replacing water heater


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I recently put a heater in on a commercial job. All work to be installed as detailed on the prints.
Water heater had valves on CW supply and HW out. That's typical for commercial. I then through the drawings down and put the exp. tank on the heater(between CW valve and tank). Engineer comes back and tells me to move it to the hot side per drawing detail. I didn't argue- just wanted off that job
Engineer must of been an Aggie

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Old 01-04-2013, 12:57 PM   #32
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You kind of have a point, but it would be a pretty unlikely scenario. There's no problem with the water heater just being "on" because water doesn't expand if it's already hot. The only problem would be if the water heater were drained of hot water first. So you'd have to take a long shower, then immediately go to your water heater and turn off the cold water supply, then go back and put your clothes on, and then do whatever plumbing you had to do right after taking a shower And the real question is, why would you need to turn off the water supply to the hot water heater unless you were doing some serious work to it or replacing it? And if you were doing that, why on earth would you not turn off the breaker to it? I'd worry more about working on a hot water heater without the breaker off than I would about a increase in pressure over 30 minutes.
That are the requirements here. All these rules are to protect the city from any responsiblity, in case of anything. Not to protect the home owner.
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:10 PM   #33
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Replacing water heater


I agree 100% about the ball valves as apposed to gate valves. As for the expansion tank, I donít know. My water tank failed recently and it did not have an expansion tank. Do you think not having an expansion caused my tank to fail after 20 years! Oh it was a Montgomery Wards that cost $199.00! Or could it be that the heaters now days are crap?
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:16 PM   #34
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Replacing water heater


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I agree 100% about the ball valves as apposed to gate valves. As for the expansion tank, I donít know. My water tank failed recently and it did not have an expansion tank.


Think of it this way - your water heater doesn't have an expansion tank, your plumbing supply system has an expansion tank. Actually, I think of all the plumbing parts connected to your pressurized water supply, the water heater is pretty low on the list of likely things to fail first due to pressure.

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Do you think not having an expansion caused my tank to fail after 20 years! Oh it was a Montgomery Wards that cost $199.00! Or could it be that the heaters now days are crap?
Let's go with door number 2 there.....
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:32 PM   #35
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It can go anywhere. It just depends where your city inspector wants it. The whole purpose is if you have a closed system. That's all. Other then that, if you don't you don't need one.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:37 PM   #36
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The pressure tank on a well water supply system will provide adequate expansion protection for a water heater when there are no closed valves between the water heater and the pressure tank. But there is no guarantee that any such valves might not be turned off, thus the need for a separate expansion tank above the water heater.

A pressure tank becomes waterlogged when the air cushion inside gets absorbed by the water. This happens with a non-bladder expansion tank or if the bladder should crack from age. Then you need to reset the pressure inside the expansion tank. Turn off the main water valve and turn on a cold faucet and wait for the pressure to be fully relieved and water to stop flowing. Then set the pressure in the pressure tank. (For a non-bladder pressure tank, close all faucets and then set the pressure.)
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Last edited by AllanJ; 01-04-2013 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:04 PM   #37
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Finally getting this installed tomorrow. It took a bit longer than thought for the supplier to get the tank from Rheem.

In the meantime, while I shut the valve off on the cold water inlet from the beginning (12 days ago), every day water will occasionally leak from the tank. A decent flow leak from the bottom element port. I end up having to occasionally open the drain on the water heater to drain off the water until the leaking stops. I've drained the entire water heater multiple times since (all the while the inlet valve being shut off).

What can explain this? I thought hot water pipes were completely independent from cold, only combining with cold at faucet mixer valves? It's not water come back from the hot water pipes in the house, they would've been drained long ago. If this is true then it seems like water is finding its way into the tank by mixer valves allowing cold to pass through to the hot pipes or the cold water inlet valve for the water heater is failing. I don't think the valve is failing because when it leaks it leaks at a fast enough rate that I'd have to drain the tank much more frequently (probably have to keep the drain open). Any thoughts? It probably doesn't matter, just curious.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:01 PM   #38
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I guess I am an outlaw, but the day I pay for a permit to put in a new water heater, or even a new roof, (I just had one installed by one of my preferred contractors) is the day I join a militia group. A new roof is not a structural change, especially if you tear off the old one, which I ALWAYS do.

I dont know how getting ripped off by the local yokels that replace bridges that dont need it, and put slate roofs on their new all brick buildings qualifies as an "Investment"

All they want is more money. The BI in my town is not even a PE for gods sake, and they dont even require secondary protection under vinyl siding because it isn't in the IRC, but they are going to tell me how to install a water heater????

Pretty soon you will need a permit per flower you plant in the spring.

175 dollars for a HWH permit is absolute highway robbery.

Now, about the expansion tank. I have a well. The well already has an expansion tank right at the well cut off switch. Since there is no check valve on the cold side, or the hot side, the well expansion tank would serve as an expansion tank for the whole system, and an individual expansion tank above the water heater is HOGWASH, and just another unnecessary expense, in my opinion. Now prove me wrong.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:20 PM   #39
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Finally getting this installed tomorrow. It took a bit longer than thought for the supplier to get the tank from Rheem.

In the meantime, while I shut the valve off on the cold water inlet from the beginning (12 days ago), every day water will occasionally leak from the tank. A decent flow leak from the bottom element port. I end up having to occasionally open the drain on the water heater to drain off the water until the leaking stops. I've drained the entire water heater multiple times since (all the while the inlet valve being shut off).

What can explain this? I thought hot water pipes were completely independent from cold, only combining with cold at faucet mixer valves? It's not water come back from the hot water pipes in the house, they would've been drained long ago. If this is true then it seems like water is finding its way into the tank by mixer valves allowing cold to pass through to the hot pipes or the cold water inlet valve for the water heater is failing. I don't think the valve is failing because when it leaks it leaks at a fast enough rate that I'd have to drain the tank much more frequently (probably have to keep the drain open). Any thoughts? It probably doesn't matter, just curious.
You probably do have a cross over somewhere. Really not too uncommon.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:34 PM   #40
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I see nobody answered my previous post. Again, I have never seen expansion tanks on hot water heaters. Why are they all of a sudden needed, especially if the system already has a well expansion tank? Are the new heaters that much thinner than the old ones? If you have Pex or another type of plastic pipe that expands a bit, wont that serve as expansion too. Frankly, I just dont get it, but I want to. If I can be convinced, I will run out and buy one and install it.
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Last edited by jagans; 01-09-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:02 AM   #41
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Well you really don't need an expansion tank if there's one for your well.

The thing to understand is that you don't need an expansion tank for your hot water heater per se. You need an expansion tank for your plumbing supply system. It can be anywhere in your system and function fine. All your water pipes are connected, so you only need one anywhere. That is, if there's no check valve somewhere in there stopping the pressure from moving past that point.

When water heats up, it expands. There's not much chance of it harming your hot water heater, but what it does is increase the pressure on all the joints and fixtures in your house. Over the years, this can cause premature leaks. An expansion tank basically absorbs some of the pressure that would otherwise be put somewhere else.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:53 PM   #42
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http://www.ci.snoqualmie.wa.us/Depar...9/Default.aspx

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