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Old 09-17-2013, 11:59 AM   #16
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


There is next to no flexibility in the line coming from the stack, as it is cut only about a foot from the stack, and I suspect that will make it hard to swing everything in line like that, but I may surprise myself. Thanks. A hot soak in a tub sounds good.
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:22 PM   #17
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


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Nice illegal repair...

Usually with smaller pipe you could have glued it all back in with proper couplings. No hub clamps are not approved for plastic fittings. Good for cast iron though.
Since when are Ferncos not approved for abs ?
You may want to let Fernco Inc know they are full of crap.

http://www.fernco.com/sites/default/...et_T4809_0.pdf
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Old 09-17-2013, 04:37 PM   #18
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


I just got done with a bunch of honey dos and am going to reset that pipe, but I want to make sure I understand TheEplumber. Are you saying to glue the ABS Coupling on the pipe coming off of the stack. (Approx where the shielded no hub now connects the replacement pipe to the pipe sprayed with the green paint. I call this the stack end connection.)

Then cut the replacement section to the distance between the inner stop of that ABS connector and the inner stop of the no hub used to connect with the cast iron elbow. That would mean cutting the repair section almost 1" less than the distance between the cast iron elbow and the stack end connection. I have to pick up the ABS connector to get an exact measurement.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:06 PM   #19
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


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Originally Posted by DidIDoThat View Post
Since when are Ferncos not approved for abs ?
You may want to let Fernco Inc know they are full of crap.

http://www.fernco.com/sites/default/...et_T4809_0.pdf
Fernco is a brand name of many products. You referenced their shielded couplings.
A non shield coupling- which most people associate with fernco are illegal inside the footprint of a structure.
The couplings you reference are shielded transition couplings for use between 2 different pipe materials. ABS/PVC are slightly different O.D.s than cast iron pipe.
If you examine the inside of the transition coupling- it says which end to apply to CI or Pl. to compensate for the OD differences.
I worked a project once where all the ground rough was PVC. The in-wall and ceiling work was piped in DWV copper- for fire and air plenum reasons. We used boxes and boxes of these couplings to join the copper to plastic. Their was a major difference in OD between the two.

A regular shielded coupling- I call no-hub- is for joining cast iron to cast iron only- although a lot of people use them for plastic pipe repair. They are not allowed to join cast iron to plastic. The plastic pipe will stretch the coupling and cause the cast iron side to pucker and not seal- caused by the OD difference.
So yes- those shieled couplings are approved if used in the right application
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:22 PM   #20
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


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Originally Posted by TheEplumber View Post
Fernco is a brand name of many products. You referenced their shielded couplings.
A non shield coupling- which most people associate with fernco are illegal inside the footprint of a structure.
The couplings you reference are shielded transition couplings for use between 2 different pipe materials. ABS/PVC are slightly different O.D.s than cast iron pipe.
If you examine the inside of the transition coupling- it says which end to apply to CI or Pl. to compensate for the OD differences.
I worked a project once where all the ground rough was PVC. The in-wall and ceiling work was piped in DWV copper- for fire and air plenum reasons. We used boxes and boxes of these couplings to join the copper to plastic. Their was a major difference in OD between the two.

A regular shielded coupling- I call no-hub- is for joining cast iron to cast iron only- although a lot of people use them for plastic pipe repair. They are not allowed to join cast iron to plastic. The plastic pipe will stretch the coupling and cause the cast iron side to pucker and not seal- caused by the OD difference.
So yes- those shieled couplings are approved if used in the right application
You are spot on that not all no hub couplings are the same. I just came from the HD where I specifically asked about what the markings meant on two different shielded couplings and of course was given the wrong answer and told me to use the wrong one for this specific application. I then spotted a buddy who has worked there forever and he knew the difference.

One from NSF is marked CI-PS-PS and it may be used to connect Cast Iron to ABS or ABS to ABS. The other is a Plumbquick by Fernco and is for CI, PL or ST to any of those 3. The difference I see between them is the (1) Fernco shield is smooth sheet metal and the inexpensive one is ribbed and (2) the rubber wall of the Fernco is thicker than the product from wherever. The boxes for both indeed were marked "Transition".

I am not disputing that your are correct when you say they may not be used to connect PS to PS. Codes may not agree with what the manufacturer rates its product.

Neither are approved for connecting to Copper (CU). They have an smaller inner OD on the Copper side.

Earlier a guy at Lowe's sold me a non-shielded flexible coupling and I am not using it.

Last edited by Klawman; 09-17-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:28 PM   #21
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


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Man, I'd hate to have you inspect in my town
I worked 28 years in the trade. Cutting corners was never a option. They do make proper mechanical couplings for Plastic Pipe. Mission brand couplings or No hub lowflex brand couplings. I hope you did notice the crud on the bottom of his cut pipe. That crud was due to the no hub rubber gasket blocking drainage flow.

Eplumber I don't think you would hate me. You would know if I inspected your work it would only get turned down with a legitimate code violation. This makes the plumbers life easier when they don't have to second guess what inspector preferences are. Because there should be none. Either it's in the code book or made up and made up I can't enforce. I've been there and had to deal with made up code by some inspectors. That's costly and bad for business.

Last edited by Ghostmaker; 09-17-2013 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:33 PM   #22
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


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Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
I worked 28 years in the trade. Cutting corners was never a option. They do make proper mechanical couplings for Plastic Pipe. Mission brand couplings or No hub lowflex brand couplings. I hope you did notice the crud on the bottom of his cut pipe. That crud was due to the no hub rubber gasket blocking drainage flow.

I noticed it. Wherever that coupling came from, the gasket was higher than the width of the ABS pipe's wall and that is what also caused some pooling on the ABS side of the connection.

Anyhow, since the house passed inspections at the time of construction and the shielded no hub was used to connect the ABS up to the ABS elbow, I have to assume that it was acceptable to the inspector when the house was built 24 years ago.

Last edited by Klawman; 09-17-2013 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:47 PM   #23
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


I am really lost. Is the shielded no hub branded PlumbQwik by Fernco, part # P3000-22, good for connecting properly suspended ABS to ABS. The chart referenced by DidIDoThat reads " 3000-22 2” CI, PL or ST to 2” CI, PL, or ST CP-200". A similar one was used to connect the ABS 2" to the ABS elbow in the wall. I used a new one to connect the replacement pipe section to that elbow and another to connect the opposite end at the point where I cut the section with the pin hole out. I guess the code may have changed in 24 years, but even then isn't there a difference between what is allowed for new construction and repairs?
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:58 PM   #24
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


Now I am not even sure if that elbow is cast iron or ABS and I won't know for certain unless I yank the fittings off of it, which I am not going to do until I figure out if I am going to replace one or any shielded no hub fittings. It was hard getting a shot of it, but does this look like CI or ABS?

I thought it was CI because of the reddish brown crud shown in the earlier shots down the throat of the elbow. Whatever it is I am wondering about the flex sleeve being clamped directly down on what I would call the hub of the elbow opening. After posting the side view of the elbow I think it is definitely CI, but I know nothing
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling-umping-elbow-003.jpg   Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling-more-plumbing-002.jpg  

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Old 09-17-2013, 10:08 PM   #25
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


That is a standard cast iron 1/4 bend- or a 90- which ever you want to call it. Some of them have quite a raised edge on them- no worries- just makes it a little tougher to get the coupling on
Use a CI x Pl shielded transition coupling and an abs coupling on the other end of your repair.
I believe you're over thinking this
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:33 PM   #26
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


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That is a standard cast iron 1/4 bend- or a 90- which ever you want to call it. Some of them have quite a raised edge on them- no worries- just makes it a little tougher to get the coupling on
Use a CI x Pl shielded transition coupling and an abs coupling on the other end of your repair.
I believe you're over thinking this
Gotcha. I am more than satisfied, now, and will do. One thing. I am confused by your instructions as how to cut the pipe. Should I cut it so that when it is glued on the one end (having pushed the pipe in and seated it against the stop of the ABS coupling) I can barely fit the far end into that transition coupling. I realize that the pipe will seat itself deeper into the abs coupling by about 1/4" when it is wet with glue and expect to cut the pipe about 5/8" longer that the distance from the ABS coupling stop to the transition coupling stop. That may be tight but if it is I can always trim some off the end with the multi tool and/or a file, but I sure don't want it short.

Thanks again for all the help. Without you guys, my rule of thumb is do the opposite of what the guys at the HD say, with a few exceptions.
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:14 PM   #27
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


This is really very simple. In steps


1. Glue the coupling on the plastic pipe
3. Measure the distance between your cast and the outside of your glued coupling
4 Add 3/4 to that measurement cut your plastic pipe just 1/8 inch short a straight cut..
5. Place band on pipe then place rubber on Cast iron side of pipe roll rubber up onto plastic pipe
6 glue inside of coupling and outside of pipe
7 insert the plastic pipe into the coupling
8. Roll rubber onto cast iron making sure it is good fit
9 slide metal band and tighten
10 run water make sure no leakies...

Have a drop cloth under work area...
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:26 PM   #28
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


Beautiful instructions, Ghostmaker, which is pretty much what TheEplumber told me but I was too dense to quite understand. Actually, the one end is glued and the other end is snuggly in place up against the CI elbow. I am taking a break and than I am at your step 7. I have to roll the one half of the neoprene sleeve onto the CI. Slide the shield over and tighten. Now I can go blow up some clay birds tomorrow. Thanks.

I also dropped by a plumbing supply, Fergusons, and they told me to do just as you folks. Glue ABS to ABS and use the shielded transition no hub to connect to the CI.
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:30 PM   #29
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


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Beautiful instructions, Ghostmaker, which is pretty much what TheEplumber told me but I was too dense to quite understand. Actually, the one end is glued and the other end is snuggly in place up against the CI elbow. I am taking a break and than I am at your step 7. I have to roll the one half of the neoprene sleeve onto the CI. Slide the shield over and tighten. Now I can go blow up some clay birds tomorrow. Thanks.

I also dropped by a plumbing supply, Fergusons, and they told me to do just as you folks. Glue ABS to ABS and use the shielded transition no hub to connect to the CI.
Rolling the rubber may be your hardest part.
Make sure the interior stop falls into place between the cast and abs- makes for good alignment
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:56 PM   #30
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Repairing pinhole leak in ABS drain in ceiling


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Rolling the rubber may be your hardest part.
Make sure the interior stop falls into place between the cast and abs- makes for good alignment
The rubber roll shouldn't be much of a problem, but it is some as it is very tight quarters. That is why I took a break so to let the glued end cure some n case I wiggle the pipe a bit as I push the neoprene over the CI.

Yep. I have that interior stop squarely in place and it is sandwiched tightly between the CI and the ABS.

Now the break is over and I am going to finish the job - WITH GENTLE LOVING HANDS.

On cutting the pipe, I somewhat reluctantly cut it as per what you said. I thought it would be too long so I dry fitted it with great difficulty. Then I glued it in as fast as I could and it is what my neighbor calls "tits on". I almost just used the first section I had cut, but it was about 1/4" shorter and I figured do it as best as I can.
Thanks, guy.
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