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-   -   repair of broken dwv line from kitchen to the main. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/repair-broken-dwv-line-kitchen-main-43703/)

docwatson 05-02-2009 10:18 PM

repair of broken dwv line from kitchen to the main.
 
Well as a newbie first of all let me say thanks for any and all of your assistance, it is greatly appreciated. Problem: I have a main sewer line and a secondary one from the kitchen to the main. The secondary line 2 1/2" has been clogged, consequently I've tried the high pressured hose method several times, and went to a snake today. All that back flushes now is black sludge, possibly dirt. Both the hose and snake stopped 21 feet in without further progress. I believe the pipe (probably clay) is broken.

My house is a single story with a crawl space running under the house. Where I located the clean, on the outside beneath the kitchen window running to the inside of the crawl space it is 2 1/2" diameter metal.

What are some options to replace the break or entire run? Right now it entails hand digging on the interior foundation wall down two feet. I have only 2 1/2' clearance from the ground to the underfloor. I'm no spring chicken having been disabled from Nam but it will get done that waqy if need be. Thanks for any suggestions. Doc

Just Bill 05-03-2009 08:44 AM

Clay pipe was often used from the house to the street, but not usually under the house. What kind of cutter are you using on the snake?? Machine auger?? Before digging, maybe a video snake would tell what is going on down there.

al's sewer 05-03-2009 09:20 AM

That black sludge is very common in kitchen lines. it is a combo of grease and soap. Have you tried running a jetter through the line. It is possible you have a broken line if you can't get the snake further than you have but it could also be a tee or solid piece of grease that won't break up. they can be stubborn at times. A jetter would probably take care of this but it will be very messy and nasty.

plumber Jim 05-03-2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docwatson (Post 268562)
Where I located the clean, on the outside beneath the kitchen window running to the inside of the crawl space it is 2 1/2" diameter metal.

OK, Did i understand you correctly, you found the cleanout outside under the kitchen window and you think it runs back into the crawspace?

That doesn't make sense. If you found it outside the kitchen window it probably runs away from the house. How old is your house? Is the cleanout full of water?

docwatson 05-03-2009 01:12 PM

Plumber Jim
"OK, Did i understand you correctly, you found the cleanout outside under the kitchen window and you think it runs back into the crawl space? That doesn't make sense. If you found it outside the kitchen window it probably runs away from the house. How old is your house? Is the cleanout full of water?"

The house was built in 1950 and has two lines; the main clay pipe ran from front to rear alley into the city trap. I had that replaced with pvc a few years back. the secondary line runs perpendicular from the garage thru the kitchen where it T's in and continues to the rear bathroom then joins the main. This line (#2) runs under ground on the inside of the concrete foundation in the ground. A kitchen cleanout was installed on the outside wall under the kitchen window and runs thru the foundation approximately 3 visible feet into the groung where it must tap in. This line then continues to the rear second bathroom and then taps into the main line. That kitchen cleanout is my access to this line. Thank you.

Al's sewer
"That black sludge is very common in kitchen lines. it is a combo of grease and soap. Have you tried running a jetter through the line. It is possible you have a broken line if you can't get the snake further than you have but it could also be a tee or solid piece of grease that won't break up. they can be stubborn at times. A jetter would probably take care of this but it will be very messy and nasty."

I;ve never heard that term, but after googling it I am now. That sems the next reasonable approach to this problem. thank you for you rkind help also. I'll stay in touch. mess and all!

Just Bill
"Clay pipe was often used from the house to the street, but not usually under the house. What kind of cutter are you using on the snake?? Machine auger?? Before digging, maybe a video snake would tell what is going on down there."

The primary line, fron to rear of house to alley was clay. that has been replaced due to the tree roots every year. Where the second line joins the main it is clay with a cement patch that was done over it sevreal years prior to my ownership. I've been here 15 years. Roughly 10'-15' in from this jointon the secondary line is the second bathroom. All of the plumbing there has been replaced. The problem exists closer to the kitchen side than the second bathroom side. Regarding the snake, I started with the coil bit, then a small U shaped one and finally the tree root chopper. All stoped at the same spt with the same results. I retried the high pressure nozzel on the hose again and it just backed flushed black silt debris. I concur that a camera snake is also another option I will try along with the suggestion from Al's sewer. Thank you all for your insight and expeience and I'll keep you posted.
Doc

al's sewer 05-03-2009 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docwatson (Post 268774)
Plumber Jim
"OK, Did i understand you correctly, you found the cleanout outside under the kitchen window and you think it runs back into the crawl space? That doesn't make sense. If you found it outside the kitchen window it probably runs away from the house. How old is your house? Is the cleanout full of water?"

The house was built in 1950 and has two lines; the main clay pipe ran from front to rear alley into the city trap. I had that replaced with pvc a few years back. the secondary line runs perpendicular from the garage thru the kitchen where it T's in and continues to the rear bathroom then joins the main. This line (#2) runs under ground on the inside of the concrete foundation in the ground. A kitchen cleanout was installed on the outside wall under the kitchen window and runs thru the foundation approximately 3 visible feet into the groung where it must tap in. This line then continues to the rear second bathroom and then taps into the main line. That kitchen cleanout is my access to this line. Thank you.

Al's sewer
"That black sludge is very common in kitchen lines. it is a combo of grease and soap. Have you tried running a jetter through the line. It is possible you have a broken line if you can't get the snake further than you have but it could also be a tee or solid piece of grease that won't break up. they can be stubborn at times. A jetter would probably take care of this but it will be very messy and nasty."

I;ve never heard that term, but after googling it I am now. That sems the next reasonable approach to this problem. thank you for you rkind help also. I'll stay in touch. mess and all!

Just Bill
"Clay pipe was often used from the house to the street, but not usually under the house. What kind of cutter are you using on the snake?? Machine auger?? Before digging, maybe a video snake would tell what is going on down there."

The primary line, fron to rear of house to alley was clay. that has been replaced due to the tree roots every year. Where the second line joins the main it is clay with a cement patch that was done over it sevreal years prior to my ownership. I've been here 15 years. Roughly 10'-15' in from this jointon the secondary line is the second bathroom. All of the plumbing there has been replaced. The problem exists closer to the kitchen side than the second bathroom side. Regarding the snake, I started with the coil bit, then a small U shaped one and finally the tree root chopper. All stoped at the same spt with the same results. I retried the high pressure nozzel on the hose again and it just backed flushed black silt debris. I concur that a camera snake is also another option I will try along with the suggestion from Al's sewer. Thank you all for your insight and expeience and I'll keep you posted.
Doc

Camera won't do much good unless you get all that sludge out of there. As soon as you put the camera in that sludge it will just black out.

plumber Jim 05-03-2009 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docwatson (Post 268774)
The house was built in 1950 and has two lines; the main clay pipe ran from front to rear alley into the city trap. I had that replaced with pvc a few years back. the secondary line runs perpendicular from the garage thru the kitchen where it T's in and continues to the rear bathroom then joins the main. This line (#2) runs under ground on the inside of the concrete foundation in the ground. A kitchen cleanout was installed on the outside wall under the kitchen window and runs thru the foundation approximately 3 visible feet into the groung where it must tap in. This line then continues to the rear second bathroom and then taps into the main line. That kitchen cleanout is my access to this line. Thank you.

Ok, If i understand you right you have a drain in the garage that ties in with the kitchen drain. So it goes from the garage to the crawspace were it ties into the same line that the kitchen is hooked up and at that point in the crawspace under were the window is there is a cleanout coming out of the ground. now from there it goes downstream toward the rear bathroom and the clog is between the kitchen and the rear bathroom? ok. If that is all about right i would be asking which way do you think the pipe runs before it ties into the 3". there should be some 3" running from the front bath to the rear bath then from the rear to the city. I think you have basicly 2 options. 1) snake it till it opens or try and figure out were the point is that you can't pass and dig it up. If you could take a few pictures that may help us see what you have down there to work with and maybe come up with a good plan.

docwatson 05-04-2009 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plumber Jim (Post 268861)
Ok, If i understand you right you have a drain in the garage that ties in with the kitchen drain. So it goes from the garage to the crawspace were it ties into the same line that the kitchen is hooked up and at that point in the crawspace under were the window is there is a cleanout coming out of the ground. now from there it goes downstream toward the rear bathroom and the clog is between the kitchen and the rear bathroom? ok. If that is all about right i would be asking which way do you think the pipe runs before it ties into the 3". there should be some 3" running from the front bath to the rear bath then from the rear to the city. I think you have basicly 2 options. 1) snake it till it opens or try and figure out were the point is that you can't pass and dig it up. If you could take a few pictures that may help us see what you have down there to work with and maybe come up with a good plan.

Well you have nailed 99% of it. The front bathroom is a side line that T's into the main line at its beginning in the front side of the house. I am able to use the main cleanout to snake that front bath line when I need to. The line in question runs from the garage to the kitchen to the rear bath and then into the main line at the rear of the house which takes it into the city system. With the black buildup (soap and grease combination) is there any chemical or natural agent that will dissolve that without damage due to backflush? Shouldn't the high pressure jetter system penetrate it? If those fail it is working underground for me. Thanks for all of your time. Doc

docwatson 05-06-2009 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast1 (Post 269104)
i don;t get it, what do you mean by working underground for you?http://photosnag.com/img/3322/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gif

The sewer line is buried 2' deep; located under the house in a crawl space that allows 2 1/2' of working space at the most with the obstacle of the under flooring in the way. That is what I meant by underground. thank you.


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