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Klawman 02-11-2013 11:37 PM

Removing Brass Ferrule from copper pipe?
 
I am replacing the three original toilet water supply lines and bibs that were installed when my house was new 22 years ago. It would be an easy job but for the brass cokmpression ferrule that does not want to come off of the 1/2" copper tubing coming out of the wall.

I knew it would be tough so I bought a puller at Home Depot ahead of time. It is desighed for that very task, but it wouldn't work. http://www.homedepot.com/buy/brasscr...-kit-t168.html

For now, I simply used the old bib's end cap (whatever you call the piece on the wall side of the water valve, which screws onto the bib housing to compress the brass ferrule), but would like to get it off and use the new parts. Also I have two more to go.

There isn't enough room to slide the bib's end cap back towards the wall so that I can cut the brass ferrule off with my dremel else I may do that.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

gregzoll 02-11-2013 11:57 PM

Just cut the copper right below the ferrule, then use a Shark Bite 1/4 turn Ball Valve. You never stated how much length you have from the floor or wall for this pipe.

Klawman 02-12-2013 01:18 AM

1 Attachment(s)
gregzoll, The guys at HD showed me the shark bite, which is good knowledge if you have no other option, but I don't want to use one. Before doing so I will go with the old compression fitting.

The tip of the copper tubing protrudes about 1" from the drywall. I can't tell for sure, since I have the new water valve fit on for now and the toilet hooked up, but I may possibly be able to get access to the brass compresson fitting bu cutting the round chromed wall flange away. If I have to, I can enlarge the hole in the drywall just enough to push the old water valve cap back into the wall and get access to the brass compression ferrel.

I just bought this Multi Tool and used it to cut some brass toilet hold down bolts. It went throough them like butter. I suppose I could use that to cut most of the way through the brass ferrel and then insert a screwdriver into the slot to break the compression fitting open.

This picture should help clarify things.

Then I should be able to pop on a new wall flange, followed by the new valves end cap, followed by the new brass compression fitting and etcetera.

I even have a new Wall Flange, as well as some of that awful paint if needed, but any drywall repairs should be hidden by the chrome flange. That reminds me, the guys at HD suggested that I could put the shark bit inside the wall but I don't like the idea and doubt that it is code.

Does this make sense?

oh'mike 02-12-2013 04:57 AM

Why not replace only the valve and reuse the old nut and ferrule?

Use a Brass Craft brand 1/4 turn ball valve----

The old ferrule often leaves a dimple in the copper pipe----rendering that bit of pipe unsuited to accept a new ferrule--

Alan 02-12-2013 08:57 AM

Most times it's not worth pulling the old ferrule off. If it's that tight, the connection between the ferrule and the pipe is very tight. All you have to do is get the valve to seal against the ferrule. If you're having trouble, clean the brass ferrule up a bit with some emery cloth and try a dab of pipe dope around the mating surfaces.

gregzoll 02-12-2013 09:21 AM

It is code to place Shark Bites inside the wall, and being done all the time. If install properly, Shark Bite fittings are just as good as soldered connections.

jaydevries 02-12-2013 10:19 AM

i use this all the time
http://www.amazon.com/Pasco-4661-Com.../dp/B00065DH2W

Klawman 02-12-2013 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 1115507)
Why not replace only the valve and reuse the old nut and ferrule?

Use a Brass Craft brand 1/4 turn ball valve----

The old ferrule often leaves a dimple in the copper pipe----rendering that bit of pipe unsuited to accept a new ferrule--


That is what I did, except it's a Brass Craft multi turn angle valve. What you said about the dimple being left in the old pipe brings up a concern I had, which was if the old sleeve was so tight a crease may be left in the pipe that would prevent a good seal, and if that is the case, the pipe would not extend far enough from the wall if I cut the bad piece away.

Anyhow, I did like you suggest and used the old nut and ferrule. Not a drop leaked in 18 hours. (The picture I posted was taken of the old nut and new valve with new supply line.) Thanks again Mike.

BTW, that multi tool is great for cutting brass valve stems to lenth as well as brass toilet hold down bolts that are a PITA if you have to saw them off in a tight area with a hacksaw.

Klawman 02-12-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 1115595)
Most times it's not worth pulling the old ferrule off. If it's that tight, the connection between the ferrule and the pipe is very tight. All you have to do is get the valve to seal against the ferrule. If you're having trouble, clean the brass ferrule up a bit with some emery cloth and try a dab of pipe dope around the mating surfaces.

That worked great!

Klawman 02-12-2013 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydevries (Post 1115659)

I may pick one of those up. So far leaving the old nut and ferrule works, but this would be good to have if I run into one that doesn't want to seal and I have to get the sleeve off.

I remember having the same problem with a water valve for the Refrigerator ice make, and that was when the house was only 13 years old. I had to cut the ferrule off, which always runs the risk of damaging the copper tubing. If possible to get the old ferrule off, that is what I prefer.

dudleydoright 02-19-2013 01:22 PM

option
 
You can always very lightly spread a thin thin layer of a teflon pipe sealing paste around the existing ferrule getting some in to the wall side between the nut and the ferrule which will lubricate and allow for the joint to be tightened easier without binding and stressing the connection as well as filling any slight imperfections.

Klawman 02-19-2013 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudleydoright (Post 1120421)
You can always very lightly spread a thin thin layer of a teflon pipe sealing paste around the existing ferrule getting some in to the wall side between the nut and the ferrule which will lubricate and allow for the joint to be tightened easier without binding and stressing the connection as well as filling any slight imperfections.

That is a good idea. Those old original construction water lines are crap. Sure enough, I carefully moved one out of the way under the kitchen sink in order to do a minor repair, but the cold water line sprung a leak where the line is soldered to the water bib. Fortuanately I had a spare as I am going from room to rook upgrading things.

Meanwhile, the local plumbing supply has one of the pullers jaydevires mentioned and it is in stocdk for $30. I plan on picking one up and pulling all the old ferrules unless they just do not want to come off and there is insufficient space to cut the pipe.

oh'mike 02-19-2013 06:28 PM

You may be disappointed---if that puller does remove the ferrule---the pipe will(may) be dimpled and will not accept a new one---the compression of the nut presses the ferrule into the pipe,

Fairview 02-19-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 1120604)
You may be disappointed---if that puller does remove the ferrule---the pipe will(may) be dimpled and will not accept a new one---the compression of the nut presses the ferrule into the pipe,

I'm wondering how many times you will need to state that to get people to believe it.:laughing: That's what makes it seal.

Klawman 02-19-2013 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 1120604)
You may be disappointed---if that puller does remove the ferrule---the pipe will(may) be dimpled and will not accept a new one---the compression of the nut presses the ferrule into the pipe,

So if the ferrule doesn't come off with a reasonable amount of pressure, cut it off and cut just behind where the pipe is dimpled. But, if there isn't enough pipe to play with, leave the original.


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