Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-23-2010, 03:12 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
Share |
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


I just cleaned up from my second sewer backup in the last 7 days. The first time we got about 7 inches or rain overnight and this time we got 7-8 inches in about 2 hours. When the sewer backs up, its all storm water so at least its not sewage. The end result is around 5" of water in the basement. Once they open up all of the sewers, it all drains out within a half hour. I also have a fair amount of water coming in through the walls due to the water flooding in the street and having it come almost all the way up to the house.

Right now there is a main floor drain with another line running to it from the drain tile. The drain tile is from 1948, so its pretty much useless at this point. It gets to the point where there is a small drill hole in the block about 6" off the basement floor and the water shoots out like a stream during one of these heavy rains.

I would put a backflow valve in the main line, but the problem is that its about 4 feet under the slab so it would require a lot of work and its a duplex. Being a rental property, everyone just flushes everything and I dont want to have to rely on the flapper actually closing in order to save the basement.

I would just put a flood guard valve in the floor drain, but Im a little worried about the amount of pressure that would build up.

So let me know if this will work.

Replace floor drain
Put T in the line just below the floor drain.
Put a flood guard valve above the outlet on the T
Run the T with a 3" line to a sump pump in the corner
Also do a interior tube along the 2 walls that usually get water and run that into the sump
Run the sump under the back yard into the parking slab in the alley

My thoughts were that this would prevent the sewer from backing up over onto the floor without building up pressure. It would just go in the the sump crock and get pumped out. Any of the water building up on the outside of the foundation would be taken care of by the new interior drainage tube.

So would this work? Is there something that is against code with this?
Attached Thumbnails
Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo-floordrain.jpg  

vetting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010, 06:06 PM   #2
Owner
 
LateralConcepts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Posts: 983
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


I would put a Clean Check in. They're easy to install outside of the house (minor excavation involved of course) but at least you're not breaking concrete. Once it's installed, they're easily serviceable from ground level.

http://www.cleancheck.com/

Tell the tenants don't flush anything but toilet paper! Better yet, put it in their lease that they're responsible if a blockage is caused by neglect or abuse. Consult and attorney first to make sure that's legal.

__________________
Brad Penske, Operations Manager - Coeur d'Alene, ID
Lateral
CONCEPTS, LLC - Sewer & Septic Line - Video Inspection, Locating, Consulting
(208) 818-8241
Like us on Facebook!
LateralConcepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 01:19 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


Quote:
Originally Posted by LateralConcepts View Post
I would put a Clean Check in. They're easy to install outside of the house (minor excavation involved of course) but at least you're not breaking concrete. Once it's installed, they're easily serviceable from ground level.

http://www.cleancheck.com/

Tell the tenants don't flush anything but toilet paper! Better yet, put it in their lease that they're responsible if a blockage is caused by neglect or abuse. Consult and attorney first to make sure that's legal.

I'm not objecting to putting a line in the lateral. However, I dont want to rely on it as the only defense. Also, there is no way I can hold tenants responsible because with 2 sets of tenants there is now way to determine who flushed what.

So can someone please comment on my original design?
vetting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 01:29 PM   #4
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,690
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


I think you're close with your thoughts, but here's what I typically see done here where I live. (It's required by local ordinance to install a sump crock at time of sale OR for any major building permit, to alleviate the excess sani. sewer water.)

The plumber will plug the draintile inlet in the existing floor drain with hydraulic cement.

A new crock is places into the basement, tied to the existing interior draintile, if present.

The new sump crock needs to be at least 1" above the floor by code here, so a minor flood won't send sewage into the sump crock.

Some kind of safe guard to prevent sewage back-up at the existing floor drain sounds like a good idea.



I'm guessing ou may be somewhere around Milwaukee?
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 01:31 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
I think you're close with your thoughts, but here's what I typically see done here where I live. (It's required by local ordinance to install a sump crock at time of sale OR for any major building permit, to alleviate the excess sani. sewer water.)

The plumber will plug the draintile inlet in the existing floor drain with hydraulic cement.

A new crock is places into the basement, tied to the existing interior draintile, if present.

The new sump crock needs to be at least 1" above the floor by code here, so a minor flood won't send sewage into the sump crock.

Some kind of safe guard to prevent sewage back-up at the existing floor drain sounds like a good idea.



I'm guessing ou may be somewhere around Milwaukee?
Yep in Milwaukee

I think everyone is going to revolt pretty soon after getting backups 3-4 times in the last 2 years.
vetting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 01:37 PM   #6
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,690
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


Quote:
Originally Posted by vetting View Post
Yep in Milwaukee

I think everyone is going to revolt pretty soon after getting backups 3-4 times in the last 2 years.

I feel for you, honestly.

One of my sisters lives on the West side, and is going through the same thing as you. Second time in a week, third in as little as 2 years. Completely unacceptable IMO. It would be one thing if there was very minor back-ups every few years, in differnet areas, but the fact that they're still dumping millions of gallons of "blended" sewage into the lake is ridiculous.

Good luck, but I think you may be lucky enough to find interior draintile, or at least be able to intersect the "webbed" tile going to the drain currently.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 01:40 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


Is there a problem with having the excess pressure during a backflow flow into the crock to be pumped out? I want to have the checkvalve in the drain, but I dont want all of the pressure blowing a pipe out under slab. I could also put in a smaller 2nd drain right by the main drain so that if the main drain is closed with the checkvalve, there is still a way for any excess floor water from the walls to flow in to sump.
vetting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 01:42 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 56
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama45 View Post
I feel for you, honestly.

One of my sisters lives on the West side, and is going through the same thing as you. Second time in a week, third in as little as 2 years. Completely unacceptable IMO. It would be one thing if there was very minor back-ups every few years, in differnet areas, but the fact that they're still dumping millions of gallons of "blended" sewage into the lake is ridiculous.

Good luck, but I think you may be lucky enough to find interior draintile, or at least be able to intersect the "webbed" tile going to the drain currently.
As part of the project I would be putting in new interior drain tile. I do have old drain tile, but with the amount of water that comes in through the walls, it obviously doesnt work anymore. I even have pressure relief holes drilled in a few spots in the block about 5 inches off the floor because so much water builds up.
vetting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2010, 01:51 PM   #9
Concrete & Masonry
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,690
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


Quote:
Originally Posted by vetting View Post
Is there a problem with having the excess pressure during a backflow flow into the crock to be pumped out? I want to have the checkvalve in the drain, but I dont want all of the pressure blowing a pipe out under slab. I could also put in a smaller 2nd drain right by the main drain so that if the main drain is closed with the checkvalve, there is still a way for any excess floor water from the walls to flow in to sump.
Honesstly, I'm not a plumber, and only work with the storm water side in basements. I'm not sure about the issues with the back-up pressure, but I have a hard time seeing how any drain less than 1" below the highest point of the floor, tied to a crock that would pump the water onto the surface outside, could possibly be code compliant. MMSD is the only one allowed to contribute to that kind of pollution AFAIK. A local plumber would be your best bet at guiding you in this aspect. Maybe someone else here has a better grasp as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vetting View Post
As part of the project I would be putting in new interior drain tile. I do have old drain tile, but with the amount of water that comes in through the walls, it obviously doesnt work anymore. I even have pressure relief holes drilled in a few spots in the block about 5 inches off the floor because so much water builds up.

Sounds like it could be exterior draintile, or even the bleeders, that are the problem. Be extremely cautious when removing large sections of the interior floor, as it's the only thing surely holding the walls on the footing laterally.
jomama45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2010, 01:10 PM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago....NW burbs
Posts: 6
Default

Question regarding floor drain and sump pump combo


I just joined and am looking at doing something similar:

Storm water backup through floor drain

bochnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yet another sump pump / pit question SeanFlynn Plumbing 0 01-24-2010 01:07 PM
Sump Pump Questions henlij Plumbing 19 08-12-2009 07:50 PM
Quick HVAC / sump pump wiring question MattOverMinder Electrical 4 01-23-2009 07:42 AM
Sump pump drainage question famdog Plumbing 1 01-05-2009 01:42 PM
Sewer gas smell in basement from sump pump mirage212 Plumbing 15 10-23-2008 06:09 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.