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Old 10-02-2011, 12:29 AM   #31
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PVC vs. Copper from Water Meter


Hey guys,

Day-1 of the re-pipe job went okay. I spent $1,200 of materials with greatest portion of that going towards all of the copper pipe and half of that goings towards fittings. The PRV was expensive at $74 and the GE water filtration unit with filter was about $95.
My main concern right now is that the compression nut with gasket at the main is leaking. The gasket cracked. My plumber found a couple lying in the meter box that he claims are always left in there in case of a "rainy day" but they were old and hard and I bet they cracked too. Unfortnately, Home Depot does not have those gaskets and commercial plumbing store is not open on Sundays so I may have a small leak at the meter until Monday evening. Today, we accomplished replacing the main and connecting back into existing pipes so I can at at least take a shower. I'm glad for that since this was a really dirty day. It seems like the water pressure is lower than it was before. Would making my main go from 3/4" to 1" reduce the pressure. The pressure regulator is new. May be it's too low? How do you increase the pressure on these things. Does the water filtration unit reduce the water pressure? It has a 1" inlet and outlet.

Thanks so much for all of the advice that I have received so far. It has helped me check my plumbers work and to be able to provide so knowledgable insight and to prevent them from cutting corners.

Here are a few photos of the work in progress. If you see anything that looks problematic, please let me know. The guys will be back at 9AM tomorrow just before the games start and I will have them make the corrections if it makes sense. Thanks in advance, VC

Trench


Connection on My side of the meter


Offset Piping at meter


Beginning Sand Back Fill


Connection at House So Far

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Old 10-02-2011, 08:05 AM   #32
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PVC vs. Copper from Water Meter


lol at the gun show in the first pic.

The PRV is probably set at about 40-50 psi. You can increase the pressure by turning the screw clockwise, but it'd probably be safest to do it with a pressure gauge to check what you're at.

If the filtration is a new addition, you'll probably see a pressure drop through the unit. Always remember to check and change out those filters. I've seen a couple here where they've left it too long and they're just bacteria breeding grounds.

Looks good!
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:09 AM   #33
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I don't like joints underground, but who cares what I like it's not my job. Thought you were using a material off a roll with no joints.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:16 AM   #34
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I don't like joints underground, but who cares what I like it's not my job. Thought you were using a material off a roll with no joints.
The joints underground are a definitely a point of concern. I appreciate the opinion. The schedule 40 PVC is what we decided to go with based on familarity and affordability. The rolled K copper sounded cool but I couldn't find it at the last minute.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:48 AM   #35
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I wouldn't worry about the joints underground. It's not like they're under concrete or something. If you tested them, and they're not blowing apart, they're fine.

We have to do it all the time here, people live on hillsides, and so that leaves us making swing joints at the meter, and another one up at the house.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:35 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by burnt03 View Post
lol at the gun show in the first pic.

The PRV is probably set at about 40-50 psi. You can increase the pressure by turning the screw clockwise, but it'd probably be safest to do it with a pressure gauge to check what you're at.

If the filtration is a new addition, you'll probably see a pressure drop through the unit. Always remember to check and change out those filters. I've seen a couple here where they've left it too long and they're just bacteria breeding grounds.

Looks good!
Yeah. I'll check at Home Depot to see if I can find a water pressure gauge. You are correct, it says that it is factory set to 50PSI. If I cant find a gauge, I should be ok since I never had one before, even I open it wide open, there should not be problem. The water filter does however say 100 psi max.

Thanks for the tip on the water filter. It has some type of timer that tells you when it should be switched. I don't think it senses if the filter is too dirty but it instead just makes it so you buy a new filter on a regular basis.

Thanks, Vc
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:35 AM   #37
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PVC vs. Copper from Water Meter


Quote:
Originally Posted by burnt03 View Post
lol at the gun show in the first pic.

The PRV is probably set at about 40-50 psi. You can increase the pressure by turning the screw clockwise, but it'd probably be safest to do it with a pressure gauge to check what you're at.

If the filtration is a new addition, you'll probably see a pressure drop through the unit. Always remember to check and change out those filters. I've seen a couple here where they've left it too long and they're just bacteria breeding grounds.

Looks good!
Yeah. I'll check at Home Depot to see if I can find a water pressure gauge. You are correct, it says that it is factory set to 50PSI. If I cant find a gauge, I should be ok since I never had one before, even I open it wide open, there should not be problem. The water filter does however say 100 psi max.

Thanks for the tip on the water filter. It has some type of timer that tells you when it should be switched. I don't think it senses if the filter is too dirty but it instead just makes it so you buy a new filter on a regular basis.

Thanks, VC
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:16 PM   #38
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PVC vs. Copper from Water Meter


Did you backfill on a Sunday ?
I hope you got your inspection before hand. The inspector can and some will make you expose your work for inspection.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:50 PM   #39
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I wouldn't worry about the joints underground. It's not like they're under concrete or something. If you tested them, and they're not blowing apart, they're fine.

We have to do it all the time here, people live on hillsides, and so that leaves us making swing joints at the meter, and another one up at the house.

First of all it don't matter what their under, second testing is another question who tested and to what pressure?, just because someone does something all the time does not make it right. I knew people that did things for 20 or 30 years wrong they thought it was right. To me plumbing is like electrical don't bury junction boxes, don't make connections underground unless there is access. Most major Utility Companies do not put joints where they can not reach. But in this case it's OK because a leak would be on his side of the meter. Bills, Bills, Bills.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:27 AM   #40
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To me plumbing is like electrical don't bury junction boxes, don't make connections underground unless there is access. Most major Utility Companies do not put joints where they can not reach. But in this case it's OK because a leak would be on his side of the meter. Bills, Bills, Bills.
Hopefully, I will not have a leak at these joints. It was hard watching my workers dig that trench. For future work, I'll remember the rule of thumb about not making joints under ground. If I would have known that it is not good practice, I may have chosen another option. I have had no problems with properly primed and sealed PVC joints under pressure and since the pipe is sold in 20' sections, I had assumed that it was okay to make the joints underground. Fortunately, the trench is easily accessible via shovel and man power. It took my guys about 45 minutes to dig that hole. The section next to the meter where I have the elbows is near the surface and takes five minutes to reach so I'm not too worried about accessibility.
Day-2 went better than day-1 but we got distracted by NFL so we didn't get as much done. I'm glad the guys are working for me for a flat fee and not by the hour or I would be worried because its gonna take longer than was quoted. I'll probably give them a few more bucks.
We tied into the sprinklers and added a pressure gauge to the system as per the suggestion burnt03. The regulator is set at 50PSI. Is there any need to raise the pressure? I went to all of my fixtures in the house and the water seems to be flowing fine.. I'll have to see how the water feels after we finish ripping out the galvanized.

So far no leaks but I'll keep an eye on things. My moonlighting plumbers will not be back until Tuesday night. So I have another day to inspect their work to make sure there are no leaks or any other potential problems. Here are few more photos. If you guyz see anything problematic, please chime in. Thanks in advance, VC

Outdoors Complete and Sprinklers Tied In


In the Basement with Gauge and Filter


Ground Connection to Water Main Between Electrical Panel and Ground Rod


Trench Closed Back and Lawn Put Back
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:29 AM   #41
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VC. you guys do nice work. My last comment was not to you but to Alan your job just happened to be the subject.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:16 AM   #42
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PVC vs. Copper from Water Meter


50psi is fine.

I wouldn't worry too much about the joints underground. Like you said, it's easy enough to expose when they're shallow like that. Our lines here are dug to about 4' deep (and further north, they go 10' and deeper!) so that's when you would try to avoid the joints.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:35 AM   #43
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PVC vs. Copper from Water Meter


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To me plumbing is like electrical don't bury junction boxes, don't make connections underground unless there is access.
Plumbing code does not prohibit this practice. If he made good glue joints and the ground isn't moving, he'll probably get 40+ years out of that piping.

Typically the pvc failures we see are the male adapters where they are threaded into some sort of metal fitting IE : meter box, and when someone drives on the meter box, the threads snap right off.

What about PE piping? That stuff splits right down the middle after 25 years. No joints there, yet you still have to make repairs. It happens all the time. We dig it up, we fix it, we bury it back over, hopefully never to look at that same pipe again in our lifetime.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:19 AM   #44
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This is a recording, there is no reason in this case to have joints underground, I understand sometimes it can not be avoided.
It just makes sense to not place joints underground if you don't have to regardless if your 10 ' deep or 1' deep why even think about digging it up and making a repair just because it's not 10' deep?. Who wants to dig it again?

I definitely would have put signal tape or some cover on that line to prevent something from topside hitting it .
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:27 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by COLDIRON View Post
This is a recording, there is no reason in this case to have joints underground, I understand sometimes it can not be avoided.
It just makes sense to not place joints underground if you don't have to regardless if your 10 ' deep or 1' deep why even think about digging it up and making a repair just because it's not 10' deep?. Who wants to dig it again?

I definitely would have put signal tape or some cover on that line to prevent something from topside hitting it .
What I like about this forum is that even amongst experts and pros, there are many differing opinions. I love to absorb it all and try my best to make a smart decision for my situation. After hearing the negatives about my install, I think it makes since to not put joints underground. On the other hand, PVC with proper sealing is really strong and lasts along time. Since, schedule 40 PVC was my material of choice and they only come in 20 foot lengths, I could not avoid making joints underground. What would you have used instead? If my pipe busts in the near future I'll need an alternative. I wasn't real keen on putting a soldered copper line underground due to the cost and soil properties in my area and that rolled flexible stuff just looks so wimpy and I have no knowledge of the fittings
There is no doubt that digging sux and nobody wants to do it but it is cheap labor that can easily be done in the future if I get a failure. Besides, I won't be doing the digging and I also am not going to rip up and redo last weekends work just because of the possibility of a future failure of an underground PVC joint. I'm going to live with it for now and hopefully until I can have my grandkids dig it up next time.

I agree with you about protecting the connections near the surface. some kid could be riding his bike down the side walk and wipeout on curb and bust my PVC elbows near the meter since they are only about a foot deep. See the attached photo of the big round flat concrete circle that I put over the critical area to provide some protection. Thanks for the advice, VC

Concrete Pad Protecting Underground PVC Joints


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