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-   -   "presumed" frozen water pipes (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/presumed-frozen-water-pipes-16020/)

mikeinKy 01-23-2008 11:32 AM

"presumed" frozen water pipes
 
Hi,
I am looking for someone to give me an answer to a question regarding frozen copper water pipes. OK, here's the story...A friend of mine has a BIG mess and it is as follows. She has a two story house with finished basement. House has a bath in center of upstairs with bedroom to left and right. Underneath bathroom, on first floor is kitchen. She separated from spouse and moved out in summer and husband stayed in house. He cut power to house in fall due to inability to pay. She discovered, on Jan 13 house was flooded from upstairs bath. Water had been shut off at house by husband that day when he returned and discovered flooding. He was in & out of house. Insurance notified. Sent unauthorized repairman who said he found both hot & cold split 1/8-1/4 inch. Claims "frozen"...Temps have been very moderate prior to discovery. Pipes in interior wall. Nothing else frozen. Today was 14 degrees and water still standing on first and second floor. Anybody got any thoughts ? I have some pics if you email me @ lasttofallthedogs@hotmail.com
Thanks

Bondo 01-23-2008 11:40 AM

Quote:

repairman who said he found both hot & cold split 1/8-1/4 inch. Claims "frozen"...Today was 14 degrees and water still standing on first and second floor.
Ayuh,....... Sounds reasonable.......

At this point, I'd dare venture that ALL of the plumbing in the Whole house is going to need Replacement........

47_47 01-23-2008 11:42 AM

If this froze on the thirteenth, why wasn't the water cleaned up in the last 10 days?

AllanJ 01-23-2008 12:10 PM

Saving all of the broken pieces of pipe would be helpful in resolving any imminent insurance problems.

Unrelated: If he abandoned the house without telling anyone, or was the only person still living there, the costs of repairs should come wholly out of his share of the community property and/or assets and/or equity (if any).

mikeinKy 01-23-2008 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 47_47 (Post 91203)
If this froze on the thirteenth, why wasn't the water cleaned up in the last 10 days?

The insurance agent wouldn't authorize work and the "sole abandoned" homeowner cannot afford it. Her shock has paralyzed her until I offered help. I'm still not convinced it froze...

mikeinKy 01-23-2008 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bondo (Post 91201)
Ayuh,....... Sounds reasonable.......

At this point, I'd dare venture that ALL of the plumbing in the Whole house is going to need Replacement........

Just curious...why would that be ?

47_47 01-23-2008 02:41 PM

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but she has to get focused and take proactive measures. Document everything, pictures, old parts all phone and written correspondences... Your biggest contribution would be to help her get focused. Has she filed a claim? She should be talking to an adjustor, not an agent. If the you or the adjustor think this may be sabotage or carelessness by the ex, I would recommend she contact a lawyer. You as a friend can help her, but she must ultimately resolve this mess. My comment about the 10 days may have been harsh, but her name is still on this property.

jogr 01-23-2008 04:15 PM

Either the insurance agent is an idiot or he is sure that the insurance company is not going to have to pay. The reason I say this is because the lack of immediate cleanup and drying is causing a lot more damage to the house. He certainly knows that and must not be worried that his company will have to pay for the damage. If he thought his company was on the hook there would have been a crew in there immediately.

The house needs to be dried out asap. Mold and decay are going on right now.

And yes this very much sounds like a burst frozen pipe. The upstairs pipe in an unheated house could easily pop first as the warmth from the ground is keeping the lower level slightly warmer and cold attic air can seep down the upper floor walls. Once it burst up there the flowing water prevented further bursts. And the wet floors in 14 degree weather just show why the burst occurred higher in the structure. The ground is keeping the lower levels a little warmer.

mikeinKy 01-23-2008 05:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jogr (Post 91312)
Either the insurance agent is an idiot or he is sure that the insurance company is not going to have to pay. The reason I say this is because the lack of immediate cleanup and drying is causing a lot more damage to the house. He certainly knows that and must not be worried that his company will have to pay for the damage. If he thought his company was on the hook there would have been a crew in there immediately.

The house needs to be dried out asap. Mold and decay are going on right now.

And yes this very much sounds like a burst frozen pipe. The upstairs pipe in an unheated house could easily pop first as the warmth from the ground is keeping the lower level slightly warmer and cold attic air can seep down the upper floor walls. Once it burst up there the flowing water prevented further bursts. And the wet floors in 14 degree weather just show why the burst occurred higher in the structure. The ground is keeping the lower levels a little warmer.

Here is a picture of the repaired area of "two" pipes. Could it be possible to freeze in nearly the same place for two different pipes?
Thanks

Clutchcargo 01-23-2008 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeinKy (Post 91348)
Here is a picture of the repaired area of "two" pipes. Could it be possible to freeze in nearly the same place for two different pipes?
Thanks

If there's a cold draft that wouldn't be unusual.

mikeinKy 01-23-2008 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clutchcargo (Post 91354)
If there's a cold draft that wouldn't be unusual.

HI,
pipes were in interior wall, inside closet, upstairs in center of house. Additionally, in the 9 days prior to the discovery there was only 2 nights of below freezing temps.(30 & 24) with highs those days of (50 & 40 ) Wouldn't there be other freezing, like toilet, if it was cold enough "inside" upstairs bath to freeze two pipes in almost identical location ? I am not a expert scientist or plumber but I can't get how this is in such a protected isolated location.
Thanks

NateHanson 01-23-2008 08:27 PM

This really isn't your job, or your friends job to try to sleuth out. Your friend needs to have her insurance adjuster on top of this. No amount of internet speculation is going to improve the situation. I think if her hubby were trying to sabotage the house (not sure how that would help him), he probably wouldn't cut two pipes right next to eachother. I think he'd just cut one. Same amount of damage, and less supicious.

Certainly two pipes in the same area could both burst. They would be the same temperature, so it actually makes sense for both pipes to burst.

My parents have had two pipe bursts in two different houses. Both were on the second floor, and one of those was in an interior wall.

NateHanson 01-23-2008 08:29 PM

What town is the house located in?

Marlin 01-23-2008 09:29 PM

Got a good picture of the breaks? Myself and I'm sure some other guys here have seen enough frozen pipes to recognize the damage.
It is very possible for both sides to freeze right next to each other. If one pipe is frozen generally the pipe next to it will be at a very close temperature and that will freeze too.


I'm not even going to get into talking about who is responsible for what damage, that's for the lawyers.

ranman469 01-24-2008 05:51 AM

when i was in Michigan the tub was the most common place for freeze ups.
the air blew in from the rim of the house and blew a long the tub drain. or from above.

the problems were almost always due to the owner being out of town or the home not being rented and keeping the heat to low. there fore causing the problem. [owners fault]


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