Pool Cabana And Outdoor Kitchen Sink - Plumbing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom
Advertisement


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing


CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2016, 09:28 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Good morning everyone.

I am planning to build a pool cabana with a toilet, sink, and shower. The restroom and shower will have a common wall with separate entrances (opposite sides of the cabana) and I plan to have all the plumbing inside the common wall and have the vent run up through the roof.

My house is on a macerator and I will be installing another effluent pump next to the cabana and pumping waste to the main tank the macerator is in.

I will have an outdoor kitchen with a sink that I intend to drain to the effluent tank common with the cabana wastewater (separate piping).

My local building inspections department initially told me it was state law (Alabama) that a homeowner can't pull a plumbing permit. After discussing with a local plumber he told me that is not true. I called my city building department back and they quickly changed their tune and said it was their policy because they do not have a plumber on staff to do the inspections. After discussing with the chief inspector and explained I have the necessary skills, or the ability to look up the requirements, he is willing to issue me the permit.

So, I wanted to ask here a few questions:

1) Reading the IPC, I wasn't clear on my vent stack. Can I tie the restroom sink drain, toilet drain, and shower drain all into the same vent stack? Should the shower drain be on a loop vent? What about the toilet?

2) Can I just use an AAV under the countertop for the outdoor kitchen?

3) What would be the best way to winterize the plumbing for lower Alabama? I live in central Mobile county. I was thinking of adding a pneumatic nipple on a ball valve in the pit behind the water supply shutoff valve and just blow it out like I have done for sprinkler systems. I don't think the weather gets that cold to worry about the underground waste lines.

Appreciate any tips or pointers.

Tom

Advertisement

SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2016, 07:30 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,779
Rewards Points: 2,104
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Draw an isometric of what you intend to do with pipe sizes and label of fixtures. I do inspect plumbing in a IPC state and have 28 years as a plumber under my belt and will be glad to help.

Advertisement

Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 12:40 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Thank you for the offer to help. I was able to find a local plumber, who's not licensed in my city, but he is licensed in my county and he said he would be happy to come out, look at what I have drawn up, walk the job site, and then design my project and supply the parts list and everything I would need to pull my own permit and do the work. Once he provides me drawings and parts list I will post here for your review as a second opinion before I take it to the city.
SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 12-11-2016, 06:24 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Draw an isometric of what you intend to do with pipe sizes and label of fixtures. I do inspect plumbing in a IPC state and have 28 years as a plumber under my belt and will be glad to help.
Okay, I think I'm going to give this a stab myself. I don't want to offend anyone, but this just seems too easy for me to hire someone to do it. I feel I have the skills to do this kind of work, so I am going to take you up on your offer to help me design this and put it in.

Here's my first stab at an isometric drawing. I did this is my word processor and then exported to PNG. The wall on the drawing is a standard 2"x6" non-load bearing wall.

A few questions:

Can I combine vent piping into one pipe before going up through the roof? If so, can the vent pipes (3) be combined after exiting the top of the wall into a horizontal pipe, using an elbow at the LAV end, tee for the FD, and a tee at the WC vent and then continue up through the roof?

I appreciate your help.

Tom
Attached Thumbnails
Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink-isometric.png  
SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 08:36 PM   #5
Member
 
hkstroud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,045
Rewards Points: 2,080
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Quote:
said it was their policy because they do not have a plumber on staff to do the inspections.
You should complain long and loud.
The same inspector that inspects the plumbers work would inspect your work. The refusal to issue a permit was a fabrication propagated to protect their plumber friends. The reason for denial is just another fabrication when they get caught in the first lie.

Last edited by hkstroud; 12-11-2016 at 08:43 PM.
hkstroud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 10:07 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,779
Rewards Points: 2,104
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


What you have is no good. Starting at the water closet and heading downstream please try to follow.

Water closet with 3 by 4 90 4 inch up through floor 3 inch part is your underground pipe size. This is for easy toilet flange connection. Next is 3 by 1.5 inch wye 1.5 inch to sink with vent off the top of the tee connecting the sink. Last is a 4 by 3 wye for the 3 inch floor drain. You also will need a clean out where you exit the structure. Increase vent size to 3 inch 12 inches above and below the roof as a minimum. This is now a proper wet vented bathroom and fixtures need to be tied in in that order.

Is what you have marked as a floor drain the shower? If so pipe it the same but run 2 inch to the shower max 8 foot to the trap from the wye.

Last edited by Ghostmaker; 12-11-2016 at 10:14 PM.
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ghostmaker For This Useful Post:
SouthernYankee (01-09-2017)
Old 12-11-2016, 10:12 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,779
Rewards Points: 2,104
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


About not having a plumbing inspector on staff then the building department should not be doing any plumbing inspections without a certified plumbing inspector.
SouthernYankee likes this.
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ghostmaker For This Useful Post:
SouthernYankee (01-10-2017)
Old 01-10-2017, 12:00 AM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
What you have is no good. Starting at the water closet and heading downstream please try to follow.

Water closet with 3 by 4 90 4 inch up through floor 3 inch part is your underground pipe size. This is for easy toilet flange connection. Next is 3 by 1.5 inch wye 1.5 inch to sink with vent off the top of the tee connecting the sink. Last is a 4 by 3 wye for the 3 inch floor drain. You also will need a clean out where you exit the structure. Increase vent size to 3 inch 12 inches above and below the roof as a minimum. This is now a proper wet vented bathroom and fixtures need to be tied in in that order.

Is what you have marked as a floor drain the shower? If so pipe it the same but run 2 inch to the shower max 8 foot to the trap from the wye.
Okay, I think I understand. I will update the isometric and reupload with more detail.
SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 12:07 AM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
About not having a plumbing inspector on staff then the building department should not be doing any plumbing inspections without a certified plumbing inspector.
I agree, but they tend to do things the way they want to do them. It's their circus and I'm just trying to be the good monkey and perform.

It kills me because there are homes going up all around me and I wonder who is inspecting their work?

One more question, or request for help: I am running my WW line into an affluent pump station and then plan to pump that to the main affluent pump near the front of the house. I have an inground pool. I was wondering if there is any particular distance I must be away from the pool? I plan to have my line at least 10ft away from the pool at its closest point. It appears I can run a 2" line from between the affluent stations? I would think not, since the pool is obviously waterproof, but thought I should ask.

Thank you tremendously for your help!
SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 12:11 AM   #10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Water closet with 3 by 4 90 4 inch up through floor 3 inch part is your underground pipe size. This is for easy toilet flange connection.
So I only need a 3" WW line, not 4"?
SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 11:18 AM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Okay, after a good night's sleep, re-reading multiple times, and thinking about it while working on my isometric I have the following questions:

1. Does the WW line only need to be 3 inches?
2. Do I only require the one vent coming off the lavatory tee for the entire system?
3. The shower drain will be 2 inches as well as the p-trap going back to the wye at the WW line. Should the WW line be lower than the showerdrain line to allow gravity drainage and to prevent any pressure from the WC pushing the contents of the p-trap out of the shower drain?
4. What size does the cleanout need to be? 3 inches?
SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 12:13 PM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Here's an updated isometric, if I understood your instructions correctly.
Attached Thumbnails
Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink-isometric_2.jpg  
SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 04:38 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,779
Rewards Points: 2,104
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


You didn't have all that on your original underground drawing. Working from this drawing. 3 by 4 inch 90 for WC 4 inch through floor for a 3 by 4 flange later. (It will glue inside the 4 inch pipe). I would suggest you just run straight to your WC with no bend like you have. If you do the 90 degree bend you will need a 2- 45 3 inch fittings to do this. Downstream run 3 by 2 wye on way to shower trap install a 2 by 1.5 inch wye that 1.5 inch will go to the lavatory sink with a vent straight off the top. Place the shower trap in the center of your shower. You may have a problem with your locals with running a grinder pump to another pump. Is the second pump pumping to a public sewer? Add a 3 inch clean out but install it so it is following the flow toward your pump. Your toilet is your main clean out.

The stub out for your sink drain should be 16" off finish floor. It will vent the entire thing. Your pool should discharge to what ever your code authorities tell you In my area the drain to the storm.

Your main drain only needs to be 3 inch but you will need to increase to 4 inch when entering your grinder pump that is usually the size of the hole. You will also need to vent the grinder pump out the roof.

Everything must flow down hill. Like we say in the biz sh** flows downhill and doesn't grow legs.
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2017, 11:03 PM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 22
Rewards Points: 44
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
You didn't have all that on your original underground drawing.
Yeah, I guess I'm getting a little better with my isometric drawings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Working from this drawing. 3 by 4 inch 90 for WC 4 inch through floor for a 3 by 4 flange later. (It will glue inside the 4 inch pipe). I would suggest you just run straight to your WC with no bend like you have. If you do the 90 degree bend you will need a 2- 45 3 inch fittings to do this.
Okay, I can probably use a single 45 3 inch fitting to angle over to the WC. I would like to keep the WW line under the wall for ease of vent piping off of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Downstream run 3 by 2 wye on way to shower trap install a 2 by 1.5 inch wye that 1.5 inch will go to the lavatory sink with a vent straight off the top. Place the shower trap in the center of your shower.
If I understand you correctly, the isometric is correct downstream of the water closet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
You may have a problem with your locals with running a grinder pump to another pump. Is the second pump pumping to a public sewer?
I am assuming this isn't a problem as a local plumber who consulted me on another issue quickly discussed with me about how he would do the plumbing and he said he'd install another effluent pump in the backyard to transfer to the main tank before being pumped to the public sewer system. When discussing with the permitting authority they did not seem to take issue with it either. Should this be a transfer line of 2 inches or should it be larger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Add a 3 inch clean out but install it so it is following the flow toward your pump. Your toilet is your main clean out.
I have updated the drawing to reflect the change in direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
The stub out for your sink drain should be 16" off finish floor. It will vent the entire thing.
Great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Your pool should discharge to what ever your code authorities tell you In my area the drain to the storm.
The pool question was not for drainage, it was the proximity of the WW line between the two pumps to the pool. I couldn't find anything in the IPC concerning proximity of sewer lines to inground pools. Just septic systems and drain fields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Your main drain only needs to be 3 inch but you will need to increase to 4 inch when entering your grinder pump that is usually the size of the hole. You will also need to vent the grinder pump out the roof.
Okay, so here's my question: Is there any issue of just using a 4" WW line from the WC to the pump rather than make size changes between the WW line and WC as well as the WW line and pump?

The grinder pump will be out in the yard with a lid and a surface vent like the front pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Everything must flow down hill. Like we say in the biz sh** flows downhill and doesn't grow legs.
Understood. I planned to have a fall of 1/4-inch per foot for the WW line to the pump, and shower line to the WW line.

I really appreciate your patience and helping me with this.
Attached Thumbnails
Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink-isometric_3.jpg  
SouthernYankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2017, 05:42 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,779
Rewards Points: 2,104
Default

Re: Pool Cabana and Outdoor Kitchen Sink


You will need to vent the shower as you have it drawn. That is why I suggested you move the line out from under the wall and just head straight towards the toilet. If you do that you will have the room to pick up the vented lav sink from the 2 inch shower drain.

This will eliminate a few 3 inch 45's a 3 by 1.5 inch wye.

Toilet toilets vented fixture then other bathroom fixtures is what we are trying to do.

You can run the thing in 4 inch but since I work the trade for 28 years cost of material was always an issue for me.

Advertisement


Last edited by Ghostmaker; 01-11-2017 at 05:45 PM.
Ghostmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts

 

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1