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ddguy 05-18-2012 03:33 AM

Plumbing DIY basement drain oops
 
3 Attachment(s)
Hi there,
Totally new to this forum, I’ve read through a little bit and it seems as though there are several experts here willing to help out those of us who have over-reached a little with our projects. I’m feeling a little silly about having this problem, hoping I don’t get laughed at too much…

It started with redoing the basement bath, and relocating the roughed-in but never used shower drain to make for a roomier space.
My buddy and I planned it to be a simple trench cut in the floor, an extension pipe added and the drain relocated a couple feet over. (Unfortunately only after starting) we realized that the existing roughed-in pipe would have a trap in it… we had already planned on adding a trap under the new shower location, and we didn’t want to have to amend the plan as we had already made a fair bit of progress, so after dry-fitting the abs pipe, we tested drainage to see if the 2 traps-situation would negatively affect the speed of the drain. Water went down gang-busters, so we figured we were golden.

Once we’d glued the pipe, refilled the trench, and tested it again just before pouring concrete to re-cover the pipe, it was a different story (oops). My guess is that the unglued joints in the first test allowed air movement, where once glued, it behaved differently (I watched the joints on the first drainage test, and as there were no leaks, even unglued I figured the dry-fit was sealed enough – it didn’t occur to me to figure air might still be moving out of the joints.). Without any air movement, I think the likely problem is that there is an air-lock between the two traps, which doesn’t allow water in the new trap to move into the pipe as there’s no displacement of air (the vent is blocked by the existing trap). I figure it looks like this:
http://www.diychatroom.com/members/d...91t-2traps.jpg
(2traps image attachment)

So the best we can figure is two solutions: first, the obvious one, which is to remove the new trap & just make use of the existing one, like this:
http://www.diychatroom.com/members/d...vent-solution/

(1trap image attachment)

The problem I see with this, which admittedly didn’t worry us previously, is that I can’t say for sure where the vent for the original drain is. I’m confident that it’s not more than a couple of feet down from the original drain placement, judging from the location of the drain stack, that I can see (this drain sits almost dead-smack on the line between the main stack and the cleanout just before exiting the house) – but I can’t be sure, and seeing the drain not operating properly has got me nervous. So, it occurred to me that I might just add another vent to the new pipe section, taking off of a vent pipe I can access in the basement ceiling and bring down the wall alongside the shower, like so (this drawing isn’t exact, but is intended to illustrate what I mean):
http://www.diychatroom.com/members/d...vent-solution/
(new vent solution image attachment)

So, any helpful plumbers out there that can tell me which choice to make for a solution? I’d appreciate any help, thanks very much.
PS: I can't seem to embed the 2nd & third images in this post, but they are attached below, to illustrate what I mean.

oh'mike 05-18-2012 06:28 AM

You must remove the unneeded P-trap---

There is no way to make that work well--start digging---

TarheelTerp 05-18-2012 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 923864)
You must remove the unneeded P-trap---
There is no way to make that work well--start digging---

^^What Mike said.
About half the time and effort that has gone into so thoroughly describing what you don't want to do and trying to rationalize your reasons for that would have gotten the two 45 ells you need installed and the job done.
Do that.

Javiles 05-18-2012 08:38 AM

Nice drawing bad idea, cut the original trap extend the pipe to the new location, you may not need to re vent if the trap is within 5 feet of the original vent, depending on your code. I see this DIY set up all the time when plumbers loose there snakes to this configuration, home owner removed the tub then installed shower.

ddguy 05-18-2012 02:50 PM

Super fast responses, thanks very much! While I respectfully disagree that your advised course of action would take half the effort it took me to start this thread (for me anyway), I see the wisdom in it otherwise.
Just to clarify, and thanks for you patience, you all seem to mean that I should remove the old trap and leave my new one... Am I understanding that correctly? Does it need to be the old one that's removed, or can I just elbow into the drain and keep the old trap (as shown in the photo with my post)?
Again, thanks very much for the help.

jaydevries 05-18-2012 03:14 PM

why ask for advise if you do not want it i think it has been clearly posted the correct way to fix issue the right way to have no problems down the road

ddguy 05-18-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydevries (Post 924113)
why ask for advise if you do not want it i think it has been clearly posted the correct way to fix issue the right way to have no problems down the road


Not sure where that comes from...

If one of the other posters who actually gave me advice can clarify things for me by answering my most recent post I would, as I hope I have shown to so far, appreciate it, and thanks again to those who have been helpful.

jaydevries 05-18-2012 03:49 PM

as suggested remove old trap extend pipe install new trap where shower is going to be. and confirm distance from vent to new trap is under 5 feet for up code and 8 feet for ip code if following code that is if it is a 2 inch pipe

oh'mike 05-18-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddguy (Post 924104)
Super fast responses, thanks very much! While I respectfully disagree that your advised course of action would take half the effort it took me to start this thread (for me anyway), I see the wisdom in it otherwise.
Just to clarify, and thanks for you patience, you all seem to mean that I should remove the old trap and leave my new one... Am I understanding that correctly? Does it need to be the old one that's removed, or can I just elbow into the drain and keep the old trap (as shown in the photo with my post)?
Again, thanks very much for the help.

You can only have one trap in a line--right at the drain---

A second trap will 1. slow the flow to much 2. collect sediment and clog quickly

So--remove the old unneeded trap--extend the pipe to the new trap location and you are good---as long as a vent is within 5 feet of the trap.

Alan 05-18-2012 11:11 PM

Why are people so afraid to bust a little concrete up? You only need another 6 or 8 inches to get to the other trap.

If you can't handle it, i'd love to be paid to do it.


Call me.

ddguy 05-19-2012 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 924216)
You can only have one trap in a line--right at the drain---

A second trap will 1. slow the flow to much 2. collect sediment and clog quickly

So--remove the old unneeded trap--extend the pipe to the new trap location and you are good---as long as a vent is within 5 feet of the trap.


Thanks oh'mike, for the explanation. Understand my issue now, glad I came to you guys for help. I really do appreciate the answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 924345)
Why are people so afraid to bust a little concrete up? You only need another 6 or 8 inches to get to the other trap.

If you can't handle it, i'd love to be paid to do it.


Call me.

I'm not sure where I gave the impression I'm "afraid" to bust up concrete. Aside from it being silly to think there's a likelihood you'd be anywhere near me in a forum for people all over (at least) North America (check my profile; if you pay your travel costs up to Alberta, Canada, I'd pay you labor rate to break my concrete up just for a laugh), how is it you think using words/phrases like "afraid" and "can't handle it" are going to entice me to hire you to do work for me? Love to have condescending people come and rescue me from all of my DIY projects.



As I said, I'm totally happy the people here who wanted to help gave me good advice, and didn't jump all over me when I asked for clarification, and didn't belittle me for asking questions in the first place (which is what I think this forum is for), and I hope they're not offended by my saying this. I guess getting trolled is sometimes the price you pay for the advice, I just didn't realize it would be.

Thanks again to the helpful people (oh'mike, Tarheel, & Javiles), and have a good day.

bbo 05-20-2012 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddguy (Post 924827)
Thanks oh'mike, for the explanation. Understand my issue now, glad I came to you guys for help. I really do appreciate the answer.



I'm not sure where I gave the impression I'm "afraid" to bust up concrete. Aside from it being silly to think there's a likelihood you'd be anywhere near me in a forum for people all over (at least) North America (check my profile; if you pay your travel costs up to Alberta, Canada, I'd pay you labor rate to break my concrete up just for a laugh), how is it you think using words/phrases like "afraid" and "can't handle it" are going to entice me to hire you to do work for me? Love to have condescending people come and rescue me from all of my DIY projects.



As I said, I'm totally happy the people here who wanted to help gave me good advice, and didn't jump all over me when I asked for clarification, and didn't belittle me for asking questions in the first place (which is what I think this forum is for), and I hope they're not offended by my saying this. I guess getting trolled is sometimes the price you pay for the advice, I just didn't realize it would be.

Thanks again to the helpful people (oh'mike, Tarheel, & Javiles), and have a good day.

don't worry about what may or may not have been insinuated. Just takes the posts that help and understand the other posts are not related to the actual discussion and ignore. I find sometimes I do not understand jargon or insinuated code references and appreciate it myself when explained. I'm about to tackle a basement drain to shower conversion myself and am glad I will be able to ask a few questions here, if needed.

TheEplumber 05-20-2012 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddguy (Post 924827)
Thanks oh'mike, for the explanation. Understand my issue now, glad I came to you guys for help. I really do appreciate the answer.



I'm not sure where I gave the impression I'm "afraid" to bust up concrete. Aside from it being silly to think there's a likelihood you'd be anywhere near me in a forum for people all over (at least) North America (check my profile; if you pay your travel costs up to Alberta, Canada, I'd pay you labor rate to break my concrete up just for a laugh), how is it you think using words/phrases like "afraid" and "can't handle it" are going to entice me to hire you to do work for me? Love to have condescending people come and rescue me from all of my DIY projects.



As I said, I'm totally happy the people here who wanted to help gave me good advice, and didn't jump all over me when I asked for clarification, and didn't belittle me for asking questions in the first place (which is what I think this forum is for), and I hope they're not offended by my saying this. I guess getting trolled is sometimes the price you pay for the advice, I just didn't realize it would be.

Thanks again to the helpful people (oh'mike, Tarheel, & Javiles), and have a good day.

Nah, you just don't understand a plumber's sense of humor. :wink:

Alan 05-20-2012 11:31 AM

The "afraid part" was a blanket statement, considering we get about 5 of these a week. People want to install a shower but they're somehow apprehensive about breaking concrete, and would rather install a 90 and a second trap.

Take it as you will.

Good luck.

oh'mike 05-20-2012 07:11 PM

I finally bought a used jack hammer last week---couldn't pass it up---


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