Pipe size needed for outdoor Gas Grill

chausman

I am running a copper line for natual gas for an outside grill. The Grill is 65K BTU rated and the lengh of the run from the gas meter to the grill is approxiamtely 60 ft. Will a 5/8" diameter pipe give enough volume of gas for proper operationi?

NHMaster

Do you know your inlet pressure?
Length and size of current piping"
can you use copper?

Call a professional before you blow your house up.

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LateralConcepts

Pretty sure you need to use black iron

I agree with NHMaster. Call a plumber that's licensed for gas.

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oh'mike

Copper is not allowed inside the house in this area---Black pipe only. Check with the code people.

chausman

Copper is fine were we live in Indiana. I already have a line that I ran 10 years ago, so I'm not going to blow up my house. My old line is 3/8" and was for a smaller grill. My new grill is 65K BTU so I know I need a larger line. Just hoping someone out there knows about a chart that shows how big the line needs to be based on the length of run and the BTU output needed.

jogr

This might help you calculate it:
http://www.propane-generators.com/natural-gas-chart.htm

chausman

Here is a great chart I found for calculating the size needed based on the run and BTU output:
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hogasflow.htm

I ended up using 5/8" brass and my run was just under 50ft. The grill works great and tested all the joints for leaks with soapy water.
And for all your worried contractors out their, my house is still standing. This is a very easy do it yourself project for most handy homeowners.
If anyone needs some help in the future with a similar project just let me know. Time to put some steaks on grill!!

NHMaster

5/8 brass?

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TheGasGuy

I know this reply is very late to when chat was active but, I was just reading it and wanted to add something just in case anyone in the future is reading it for advice. Copper tubing should not be used for natural gas use. It corrodes from the inside out and causes copper flakes to flow in direction of gas and potentially clog or damage appliance.

tcleve4911

In Maine........ all exterior gas lines must be black iron pipe.

Termite

You're wrong in saying it should not be used. Are there better products? Sure! But it isn't necessarily illegal, stupid, or prohibited.

Reference IRC section G2414.5.2, or IFGC 403.5.2 Copper tubing.
Copper and brass tubing shall not be used if the gas contains more than and average of 0.3 grains if hydrogen sulfide per 100 cubic feet of gas.

It can be used if your gas company delivers gas that meets the code requirement. Many cities have prohibited it due to the gas hydrogen sulfide, but unless specifically/locally prohibited it absolutely can be utilized.

For the layman, we're not talking about the same gas pipe you run water in. Fittings must be brazed (not soldered), and so on.

Jackofall1

No need to change the 3/8" line, a 3/8" line sized for a velocity pressure of .3" wc would carry over 200 CFH, given gas has a BTU content of 1000 BTU's/CF, you have more than enough with 3/8" line.

When sizing a line with a velocity pressure of .3" line losses really don't have to be considered if the line length is less than 100'.

Mark

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Termite

Not how I'm reading it in the code. I think you might be getting your data from the 2psi chart, not the 1/2psi chart. I assume the OP does not have a 2psi system in their home, as most folks do not. The IFGC chart for a .5"wc (1/2psi) system, which is most common in residential applications, says that 3/8" type K copper tubing is good for 21 cubic feet per hour at a length of 60' from the meter (assume 21,000 btu/h).

To get type K copper to run 65000 btu/h's at 60', a 3/8" pipe isn't even close. It would take a 5/8" pipe, which has a 74,000 btu/h capacity.

The challenge here is that the correct way to size gaslines (per the IRC and the IFGC) is based on the longest length method, not necessarily the length of the individual pipe in question. All pipes in the home are sized based on the longest pipe in the branch or home. We don't have that information.

This is a very old post, so the OP probably still isn't seeking our help.

Jackofall1

Granted my first numbers were wrong, but here is what I calculate for a 3/8" Type K copper line.

Inlet Pressure - 16" or 8 oz/in2 or .50 psi
Line length - 60'
SG of gas - .6
Line Size 3/8" ID - .305"
Pressure at Device - 6" or 3 oz/in2 or .19 psi
Flow rate - 61 CFH

If the line size is increased to 1/2" or .527" ID
Resulting flow rate 135 CFH with the same pressure as above.

If incoming pressure is less then a 3/8" line will really suffer, but if its more then you could very well achieve the required flow.

I am not advocating to do this, I am just demonstrating that it can be done, the only negative that would come out of that would be less heat at the barbeque, at which point you could increase flow by adjusting the regulator.

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COLDIRON

Good point from Thekctermite use K copper only not cheap shelve M copper for water usage.