Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring - Plumbing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-15-2011, 03:52 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: N.C.
Posts: 418
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


I'm planning on removing the gray PB plumbing in my house. My thought is to go with Pex. I have a friend that has a Pex pipe copper ring crimper. What should be my major concerns when using this type of crimp ring?

Advertisement

Earnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 04:06 PM   #2
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 4,239
Rewards Points: 2,388
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Make sure you cut the pipe square, Position the ring in the proper place, use the go/no-go tester to insure the crimper is calibrated.

Make some test crimps before you start to get the hang of it.

Advertisement

__________________
Location:
Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rjniles For This Useful Post:
Earnie (01-15-2011)
Old 01-15-2011, 06:24 PM   #3
Member
 
Homerepairguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 832
Rewards Points: 602
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnie View Post
I'm planning on removing the gray PB plumbing in my house. My thought is to go with Pex. I have a friend that has a Pex pipe copper ring crimper. What should be my major concerns when using this type of crimp ring?
My belief is that if one goes with the crimped ring method, EVERYTHING including the crimping tool must be from the same manufacturer. Think about this:

The crimp ring method relies on use of a go/no-go gauge to determine whether the crimp is good or bad. We're talking thousands of an inch whether the gauge passes over a crimp or not. Now that thousands of an inch could be different in the wall thickness of the pex tubing, the outside diameter of the fitting or the thickness of the crimp ring. Also, the crimping tool is supposed to be calibrated to insure a proper crimp.

There's no control over the variables if one uses pex from one manufacturer, crimp rings from ebay, fittings from some place else with the crimping tool that your friend has.

Just my take and I would never chance flooding my house due to a faulty pex connection because I tried to save money by buying cheap at different places. Not saying that you would do this, but just saying.

Others milage will vary,
HRG
Homerepairguy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Homerepairguy For This Useful Post:
Earnie (01-15-2011)
Old 01-15-2011, 07:44 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: N.C.
Posts: 418
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Thanks guys. Your input and specific points are much appreciated.

As to the common manufacturer (pipe, rings, fittings, tools), whom do you recommend?
Earnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 03:48 AM   #5
Member
 
Homerepairguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 832
Rewards Points: 602
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnie View Post
Thanks guys. Your input and specific points are much appreciated.
As to the common manufacturer (pipe, rings, fittings, tools), whom do you recommend?
I went with the Wisbo/Uponor AquaPEX system. It's the highest quality pex tubing on the market today and is the only system that uses the highest rated pex-a tubing. Here's a link that explains the different ratings for pex tubing:

http://www.pexsupply.com/resources/pexPlumbing

The Uponor system uses the expansion method for fittings and when the expanded tubing with ring is slipped on a fitting, it contracts by memory and forms the tightest connection without the need for any go/no-go gauge.

The con for this system is that the expansion tool is quite expensive but can be purchased at pexsupply.com for $289 on sale (which it usually is whenever I check). To me that cost is negligible when it comes to my peace of mind for joint integrity. Besides, the tool is a high demand item on ebay and can be sold very easily if one decides to recoup some of the cost.

Not saying that the other pex joint methods are not good as long as everything is bought from the same manufacturer. But I just personally feel that the Uponor expansion joints are the most fool proof for a DIY type like me and I like using the highest grade pex tubing available.

HRG
Homerepairguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 10:38 AM   #6
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,306
Rewards Points: 2,190
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


I used the Wirsbo (Uponor) system on my house. In general, I was pretty happy with the results, however there are a few things you should know about PEX in general.

1. There are three different types of PEX made, labeled PEX-A, PEX-B, and PEX-C. This refers to the manufacturing process. Check Wikipedia for a full discussion on the various techniques for making PEX. It is not clear to me that there is any significant difference in performance between the three different types available, and since the size of the tubing is identical (ASTM standard), you can certainly use non-Wirsbo tubing with Wirsbo fittings if you so choose.

2. There have been problems in the recent past with degradation of brass fitting used in PEX applications, see the Zurn lawsuit. I no longer use brass fittings, I have switched entirely to polysulfone (plastic) fittings made by Wirsbo, except in the cases where there are only brass fittings available (certain valves come only in brass).

3. The expansion system and the crimp system are totally different, I have never used the crimp system, so I can offer no opinion on how well it works. I have used a sharkbite once as a disconnect, it worked well.

4. If you go with the Wirsbo system, make sure you adequately expand the fitting and follow all the directions for rotating the head on the tool etc. Pretty straightforward.

5. Removal of pipe with the intent of reusing the fittings is a bit tricky. This can occur if you are doing repairs or upgrades. There was a post on this site that pointed out that you can heat the PEX with a torch until it turns transparent (normally it is translucent), then pull it off the fitting, assuming you have cut the ring off first. This actually works beautifully, prior to that tip I had tried to remove the pipe by cutting through the pipe using a razor, and if you nick the fitting even the smallest amount you get a leak.

The biggest drawback to the Wirsbo expansion system is the difficulty using the expansion tool in tight places, due to the length of the tool. Wirsbo makes an air expander, much smaller than the standard tool, but very expensive. I have never used it. With the standard tool, it is wise to arrange the order of fittings so that you have plenty of room to use the tool. Preassembling sections has worked well for me, leaving only the last two connections to be done in place.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2011, 02:39 PM   #7
Member
 
Homerepairguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 832
Rewards Points: 602
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
1. There are three different types of PEX made, labeled PEX-A, PEX-B, and PEX-C. This refers to the manufacturing process. Check Wikipedia for a full discussion on the various techniques for making PEX. It is not clear to me that there is any significant difference in performance between the three different types available, and since the size of the tubing is identical (ASTM standard), you can certainly use non-Wirsbo tubing with Wirsbo fittings if you so choose.
Hi Daniel,

The Nibco Durapex pex tubing (PEX-C) has had problems splitting lengthwise while in use after installation. That has happened within only months rather than years. There are posts by many people complaining about this problem. I would avoid using that pex at all costs. Also, the cost of the Uponor AquaPex tubing is very competitive with the PEX-B and PEX-C tubing so I don't see any reason to use any other pex tubing with the expansion joint method. Buy the best tubing specifically made for the expansion joint method in my opinion.

Best regards,
HRG

Last edited by Homerepairguy; 01-16-2011 at 02:42 PM.
Homerepairguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 07:40 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: N.C.
Posts: 418
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Can you identify the type of Pex (A, B, or C) by looking at the markings on the tubing?

Where would you classify Vanguard Vanex Ultra Pex? This was installed by a plumbing company during a bathroom remodel.

I think I need to check the local rental store for an expansion tool.
Earnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 10:02 AM   #9
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,306
Rewards Points: 2,190
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


My Wirsbo tubing is specifically labelled PEX-a. Without the labelling, I do not believe you could tell whether it is A, B or C tubing, as the end product looks the same. PEX-c tubing is made by electron beam activation of polyethylene to achieve cross linking, and a few articles I have read suggest that quality control of PEX-c is critical else the PEX can become brittle.

One other point is that all PEX is susceptible to degradation from sunlight, and MUST be stored and installed in a sunlight free environment. Reports suggest that as little as 30 days of exposure to direct sunlight can ruin PEX, and make it brittle and subject to failure. This is not normally a problem once installed, but improper temporary storage can create serious problems with the installation.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 10:47 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: N.C.
Posts: 418
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Thanks Daniel.

I found this:

What do the letters A, B and C mean when used to describe PEX?
The ABC letter designation system is used in Europe to identify the process by which a particular PEX tubing is cross-linked. It is NOT a grading system, but simply an identification system. PE-Xa is cross-linked with the peroxide method, PE-Xb is cross-linked with the silane method (Vanex is silane method) and PE-Xc is cross-linked by electron beam irradiation.



Here: http://www.plumbingmall.com/vanguardfaq.htm
Earnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 01:28 PM   #11
Member
 
Homerepairguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 832
Rewards Points: 602
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnie View Post
Thanks Daniel.

I found this:

What do the letters A, B and C mean when used to describe PEX?
The ABC letter designation system is used in Europe to identify the process by which a particular PEX tubing is cross-linked. It is NOT a grading system, but simply an identification system. PE-Xa is cross-linked with the peroxide method, PE-Xb is cross-linked with the silane method (Vanex is silane method) and PE-Xc is cross-linked by electron beam irradiation.


Here: http://www.plumbingmall.com/vanguardfaq.htm
The link I posted in post #5 also explains the PEX lettering system.

HRG
Homerepairguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2011, 03:56 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: N.C.
Posts: 418
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


HRG,

It does indeed. I missed it on the first read. The link I added was specific to Vanguard Pex. Was curious which version it was. Shows its Pex-B.

Anyone have an opinion on the Vanguard Vanex Ultra Pex?
Earnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2011, 04:26 PM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Pex Copper Crimp/Compression Ring


Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnie View Post
HRG,

Anyone have an opinion on the Vanguard Vanex Ultra Pex?
We've had it in our homes (and several of the Million$+ homes around here) for over 7 years and no problems so far. Previous house has WIRSBO AquaPex in it and NP there either.
A

Advertisement

A10Thunderbolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do I need a ground rod to replace copper water pipe mfkcbk Electrical 10 11-11-2010 05:03 PM
Copper or PEX (and which PEX connectors) SFX Group Plumbing 3 11-03-2010 09:06 AM
Copper look gutters but not as expensive ? Scuba_Dave Roofing/Siding 9 08-02-2010 10:23 AM
Copper hood - Looking for input steve1234 General DIY Discussions 13 01-04-2010 02:34 PM
closet ring flange help/explaination eyeglass Plumbing 2 09-09-2009 07:35 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts