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Old 05-12-2012, 02:02 PM   #1
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No walls to plumb in!


Hello,

Here is a link to images.
http://imgur.com/a/GQ8Bd

I am a slightly handy young man with limited plumbing experience building a dry stack house on an extremely tight budget, [I'm a teacher]. It is loft style, so really tiny, about a thousand square feet. I am struggling to find all of the answers I need because i will not be running piping in the walls.

http://imgur.com/a/GQ8Bd shows an image of the drain system I have planned. The trenches are the footings. Will this work? I understand the slope issue, I am asking about the layout.

I am getting mixed information about the size to use for the drains. 1 1/2" for sinks? 2" for showers and tubs? What about toilet?

Where do i have to have Clean outs?


ok, on to venting.

Since I have to come up six inches about the highest point of the fixture and I can't put them in the walls i was hoping i could just run them to the top of the room exposed inside and meet them up and then vent outside. I am hopelessly lost on wet venting horizontal venting so I pretty much vented everything independently, not sure if all of that is needed. I understand i need to vent them within so many feet of the trap. Will this system for venting work? Will it pass inspection? The office is not being helpful.


ok, on to supply.

I am hoping to run PEX line below the concrete, red blue to each fixture. Because i have drain lines running everywhere planning supply lines seems to be a nightmare. I have to be one foot above them when i cross them so i guess this means i just need to put my drain lines really deep? I have heard mixed issues with running the line in protective piping. I was planning on only using sleeves when crossing a drain line and when penetrating the concrete. Can i just run the lines 4 inches or so below the slab while one foot about the drain pipes and backfill over them with sand?

Again, i am not sure on what the best size supply lines for the different fixtures should be.


Since the whole set up is a touch unusual, where do i have to have clean outs?

I appreciate any advice you can offer me, even if you cannot answer everything.

I appreciate your time,
Nicholas Miller

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Old 05-12-2012, 02:52 PM   #2
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No walls to plumb in!


Running the plumbing in the open isnt a problem.
I dont think running the plumbing through the footing will fly anywhere ,not to mention the nightmare it would be to repair.

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Old 05-12-2012, 04:31 PM   #3
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No walls to plumb in!


Quote:
I am getting mixed information about the size to use for the drains. 1 1/2" for sinks? 2" for showers and tubs? What about toilet?
Sink drains = 1 1/2"
Shower & tub = 2"
Toilet = 3"

Quote:
Where do i have to have Clean outs?
As close as practical to the base of the stack, just before the drain goes into the floor (slab) and also at any transition of size of drain pipe. So underneath the bathroom sink, kitchen sink, tub, water heater, washer. The toilet can be pulled and the drain used as a cleanout, so no worries there. All these cleanouts should be after (below) the P trap for ease of rodding. Sequence is like this; fixture>P trap>cleanout>drain into slab.

You'll need to have a P trap on your water heater drain if you want to hook it into the rest of the sanitary drain system.

One question I have is that up here we have a max distance of 15m (~45') between cleanouts for one way rodding. What is your distance in linear feet between the kitchen sink and where the water heater drain ties in?

Quote:
I am asking about the layout.
Layout looks fine to me, but personally I'd hook the washer, sink & toilet all into the same horizontal drain line. Cleaner looking and much less depth (read:digging) needed hooking up to sewer line.

Quote:
Will this system for venting work? Will it pass inspection?
Looks good to me and should pass if the local inspector is competent and is not a legacy hire or a complete idiot.

Quote:
I am hoping to run PEX line below the concrete, red blue to each fixture. Because i have drain lines running everywhere planning supply lines seems to be a nightmare. I have to be one foot above them when i cross them so i guess this means i just need to put my drain lines really deep? I have heard mixed issues with running the line in protective piping. I was planning on only using sleeves when crossing a drain line and when penetrating the concrete. Can i just run the lines 4 inches or so below the slab while one foot about the drain pipes and backfill over them with sand?
Where exactly did you hear about a 1' separation between water supply & rainage? A couple of inches should suffice. Make sure though to bury all water supply and drainage pipes in sand as this allows for the expansion & contraction of the pipe without doing any damage that the resulting friction could cause. 12" of sand surrounding is plenty (6" either side). Also what is the min depth for burying pipe where you are? Here it's 36" for frost protection. As for coming up through a slab, putting your pipe in a sleeve is the only way to go. Again this allows for the expansion & contraction of the pipe without doing any damage that the resulting friction could cause.

Quote:
i am not sure on what the best size supply lines for the different fixtures should be
A 1/2" supply to each fixture is sufficient. Whether you prefer a trunk & branch or manifold water supply system is up to you. Remember that you'll have to bring the water supply into the house so you can put a shut-off, pressure reducing valve (if necessary), hook into the water heater and expansion tank before you back under the slab.

Gook luck, looks interesting. I'd like to see your progress and suggest that you post it over here, http://www.diychatroom.com/Project Showcase/ .Also letting us know your approx location as that helps us give you more specific answers.

Last edited by VIPlumber; 05-12-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:02 PM   #4
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No walls to plumb in!


which code are you under? under the IPC that set up wont pass. drainage needs to be branched. as mentioned by VIP
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:14 PM   #5
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No walls to plumb in!


First let me say, I have posted to a number of forums and this one seems like the best, I really appreciate the help.

I realized I should have mentioned a few things. Dry stack construction ( www.drystacked.com ) entails conventional concrete blocks simply stacked (no mortar joints), and then locked into place by a coating of Surface Bonding Cement that is applied to both the inside and outside of the walls. Vertical rebar and concrete fill is installed inside the blocks every 32", in addition to every corner of the house and flanking every window and door. So much of our walls will be filled. Thus the decision to install exposed plumbing and electrical. We will not be furring out any walls, as we don't mind the industrial look of everything being out in the open.

I am going to try to answer all your questions.

I am located near Lafayette, Louisiana. I am in St. Landry Parish [we have parishes, not counties], which follows the Louisiana State Plumbing Code 2000, found here http://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/la_plumbing.pdf

I already have a building permit. My permit office told me that based on the scale of my project, I do not need to have a licensed professional do the plumbing work.

The Frost line is 4 inches here I believe.

VIPlumber- The distance from the kitchen sink to the water heater is 7 feet 2 inches. It is a very small place. I have read, and reread the part of the code on clean outs and have not found mention of maximum distance here but I don't think I will exceed any length issues.

VIPlumber- you asked why I thought the supply lines had to be a foot above the drain lines, so I went back and reread the code. you were right. I misread it. It means if they are in the same trench.




My questions to you. Forgive my ignorance.

I am getting positive feedback on exposed venting passing inspection. I am relieved, I was very concerned about this.


Plummen has filled my heart with fear. "I dont think running the plumbing through the footing will fly anywhere"
I made my footing wide to support the weight of my heavy walls, and I have plumbing next to those walls. I am going to go under my internal footings with my lines, is that ok or not? I thought if I followed VIPllumber's advice with the backfill 12 inch rule with sand and packed it carefully it would be fine.

I just adjusted my plans and moved all vertical penetrations of the slab where they are no longer going vertically through the footers.

Javiles mentioned my drain needs to be branched, what does that mean?

VIPlumber implied I did not have to drain my water heater into the sewer line. It has to be where it is, in the center of the house. I thought I had to have a drain for it, but if someone can suggest something simpler I will gladly listen.


I was planning a floor drain for a walk-in shower. I did my homework and noticed this exception in the Cleanout portion of The Code.

EXCEPTIONS: The following plumbing arrangements
are acceptable in lieu of the upstream cleanout.
.....2. "P" traps into which floor·drains. shower drains
or tub drains with removable strainers discharge.


Am I correct as interpreting this to mean as long as I have a removable strainer in my floor drain I do not need a clean out at my shower?



---overhead shot of planned construction http://imgur.com/uGvcX
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:17 PM   #6
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Not familiar with Louisiana plumbing code, as for the pipe through the footing we have to sleeve the pipe with a diameter 2 size larger than the installed drain. 3 inch needs a 6 inch sleeve 4 inch needs an 8 inch sleeve, and so on. Branching the fixture is when you group them together in a series of combinations before they connect to the main line, you a can vent a branch many time with just one vent. Example I can have a bathroom with a toilet a tub lavatory bidet and vent them all with a single vent, again all depends on your plumbing code some area don’t allow branching.

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