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Old 03-31-2014, 03:16 PM   #16
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


an be but the point remains that your shower was not properly waterproofed when built.

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Old 03-31-2014, 04:06 PM   #17
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


Typical flipper Bath. Cheap on not using the proper products, and in turn you get a mess. The only way to fix this is to tear down the walls for the shower. Then do it properly. I bet that if you cut into the Kitchen ceiling, you will most likely find Black mold up there.

Same on the back of that Drywall the tile is on.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:09 PM   #18
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


First of all---diagnose the problem----

You ripped out tiles---did you do a flood test to see if the pan is the issue?

To flood test---insert an inflatable plug into the drain pipe about 3 inches below the tile.

Fill the pan with water to within an inch of the curb top----

A properly built shower does not need tile to be water proof.

The number one cause of leaks is escaping water---around the door or curtain--

Number two---bad seal between the mixer cover and the tile---

number three---shower arm leaking inside wall----
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:47 AM   #19
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


gregzoll: Not a flip, this is a new build. This is also likely the first failure; as I posted earlier, I was able to dry off the ceiling quickly and from what I can see (I have a usb endoscope to allow me to see into the ceiling cavity) there is no damage at all. I also used the endoscope to snake down through the shower wall opening for the shower handle and see that it's bone dry behind the tiled wall at least on that side.

oh'mike: I ran a hose down the drain and ran it for a while, no sign of any moisture so I am ruling out the drain. The shower stall has a glass surround with no evidence of any escaping moisture. My endoscope tells me there is no moisture in the void between the back of the shower and the other drywall surface, ruling out any issue in the diverter or neck. And based on the fact that this all started a few hours after I scrubbed the hell out of the shower floor (and only happens when the shower is ran) I am fairly confident it's leaking through the slight cracks in the grout between the walls and floor.

I'm just a layperson and would love to be proven wrong - however without any other reason to think otherwise I'm not going to run a flood test as it took considerable time and effort to get everything dried up.

Assuming this is the tray - either a leak or they just never put a tray in (I have other plumbing concerns in this house that leads to this assumption), I got the name of a commercial tile worker that also does residential and comes highly recommended. In our brief conversation he said he's done plenty of shower stall installs from the framing up - including the tray, etc. I'm having him swing by today to take a look, but should I be hiring a professional plumber to do the tray portion?

I recognize I could probably fix this with a generous application of silicone caulk around the perimeter of the floor and up the corners, but as I said before I'd like a solid fix that won't result in a wet ceiling if/when the caulking lifts. At the same time I'd like to prevent ripping the entire bathroom down to the studs because I only have a couple cases of tile that matches in the basement so this could quickly spiral into a huge expense that frankly we just can't shoulder right now.

I'm hoping someone with some experience with fixing a shower tray can weigh in with some advice, or maybe some questions I can ask the contractor that will be stopping by later today. In my layman head I'm thinking the first row or two or tiles can be removed and a large, 40mil PVC membrane installed, attached as high as possible to catch any possible moisture seeping in through the wall grout to current cement backer board. New strip of cement backer board installed over it, and appropriate substrate/tile over that. Since I have just about all the material I need, and I could handle removing all the material to the studs and subfloor, I am hoping I can get a solid fix put in place for a few hours of skilled labor that has installed these kinds of stall showers.

Thanks for everyone's time, very much appreciated.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:18 AM   #20
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


By the way, this is the endoscope I have:

www.amazon.com/dp/B00EQNCMTY

For $23 it has saved me many, many times and I highly recommend it. If you have a hole the size of an eraserhead, you can get in and see what you're dealing with. I've used it to snake down pipes to look for blockages, get in behind walls to see insulation, and in this case, to peak down behind the shower handle to verify the supply lines, diverter, and shower arm are all dry.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:38 AM   #21
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


Is this the same place that you started the first thread on in 2008? If the Bath was properly done, with a proper Shower pan. You would not be having these issues. Same with the Closet flange in the other bath.

At this point, there is no waiting 4 years to fix. It is a priority at this point. That means reuse what you can. If you can take the tile off with no problem, and clean up the backs, reuse.

If you want to change something, check the clearance & Open box items at your local Lowe's, Home Depot.

We did not have the money when we had the wall fall inwards into the tub, back in 2010. At that point it was a now do, not a later. Especially since it is the only bath in our home.
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:18 PM   #22
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


Greg, no that was our last house. We just got this one 2 yrs ago.

Tile pro just left, we have a plan - replace the tiles I broke off, regrout, and seal with silicone at all joints. Seal all grout lines with sealant. Let dry, seal again.

The floor, he said, was too solidly built to warrant ripping out, and could lead to a snowball effect. His opinion is that my cleaning effort was too vigorous, and the original grout job wasn't done well. The pan also failed. The patch job should cost around $200.

Basically, it looks like I'll be doing what I originally said in this thread I wouldn't do - patching the issue. Our complete remodel will now be moved up on the priority list, to 18 months from now, fall of 2015 when a large chunk of daycare bill drops off. At that time, an overengineered tray will be first on my list.

I'm putting in a 9v water bug in the ceiling to alert of us any future failures.

Thanks
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Old 04-01-2014, 02:47 PM   #23
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


Quote from above :I'm putting in a 9v water bug in the ceiling to alert of us any future failures."


Just remember to change the batteries as well as the smoke detector batteries at least once a year.

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Old 04-02-2014, 05:43 AM   #24
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


Expect it to fail again if the pan will not hold water----a properly waterproofed shower pan does not need tile to keep the water from escaping---

Tile and grout are not water proof--the pan must be water proof before tile is installed.

I still suggest a flood test---but if you are sure the pan is leaking---I suggest you decommission the shower until you can fix it ----

How to build a shower - Building a shower pan with pre-sloped mortar bed, liner and curb.

This is the most common style of pan building----they are frequently done wrong--

Done right the don't leak--before the tile is installed.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:55 AM   #25
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


We've had a couple contractors in to take a look, and while their advice is split (redo pan vs caulk and pray) we have ultimately decided to rip out the existing floor/tray and redo it. We're using this opportunity to do a slight upgrade to the shower (body sprays and upgraded glass surround) so it doesn't feel like paying for nothing.

Thank you to everyone that offered their feedback, very much appreciated.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:27 PM   #26
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


Good choice, In my experience those "prayer" fixes last as long as the prayer lasts.

And upgrading a little is always a bonus .

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Old 04-10-2014, 05:45 PM   #27
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


I don't see a liner. Looks like some roofing tar on the wall.
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #28
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New waterfall feature - from a kitchen recessed light. :( Help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
I don't see a liner. Looks like some roofing tar on the wall.
Most likely a bad Hot Mop job.

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