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Old 09-20-2008, 08:24 PM   #1
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new owner---old jet water pump


Bought a property with a non functioning well,3-5 years.
The jet pump has two different manufacturers' names on it.
The motor itself is a Flint and Walling.
I have no idea what the specs mean and they are kinda tough to read:
3/4 hp
60 ????
Rise 40 C
Phase 1
Date code 751
Rpm 3450
volt 115/230
amp 10/15
se amp 14/7
model 90107

Attached to the motor at the end where the water would come in from the well is a:
Jacuzzi part with
model # S7DH 1 1/2 B-S TP

I cleaned the electrical connections and contacts with some sandpaper and then plugged it in.HUUUUMMMMM is all I got and all I expected since the chances are it needs to be primed at the least and more than likely needs to be lubricated in some spots.

What I need is a manual to figure out how to prime the beast or overhaul it to get it running.

Is there anyone who can get me started with the info I have provided?
Out of necessity(strapped for cash)
passion and responsibility(my daughter and I have 4 horses)
being frugal(just another word for cheap,but I do recycle)...
I would like to get this thing running ASAP.

FYI I already have the trench dug over 5 feet deep,(we get 4-6 feet of snow per year),running 120 psi 3/4 " line,brass fittings with PEX connectors(it all fits),yard hydrant with 5' down/2' up,but need to get the pump going before I bury anything.

Thx to anyone who takes the time to respond.

Cheers

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Old 09-21-2008, 07:48 AM   #2
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new owner---old jet water pump


If all it does is hummm it may be locked up from sitting. When you cleaned the contacts did you try and rotate the shaft? Most of the shafts have a flat spot on the shaft you can put a cresent wrench on and turn it. If that frees it up lubricate the shaft and bearing with oil. If you get it running there is a plug in the top of the pump. Remove it and fill with water to prime it. You may have to do this 1 or 2 times. Good luck.

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Old 09-21-2008, 01:18 PM   #3
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new owner---old jet water pump


Yes I did rotate the shaft,which took some effort,and it felt and sounded gritty.( Rust ? )

I should have lubricated it right away and let it sit before being able to return.My bad !

I wanted to take off the housing but after removing 4, 1 " bolts,the housing seemed ' spring loaded ' so I left it alone,not knowing what I was getting into.

As far as the priming .....there is no plug on top.

All I have been able to find is a plastic bolt with a slotted/hex head at the end of the motor,in the center.Not sure what it is for.Access for lubrication?Can't see into it as it is only about 5 inches from the wall.

At the other end of the unit is a valve.The same kind you find on the bottom of an air compressor to let out the water that builds up in the tank.That would be to let out air bubbles,I assume.

Getting back to priming....I cannot see any way of doing this unless I get a 2" or larger pipe wrench and take it apart to gain access to sending some H20 down the 2" pipe leading up/down to the well.

I have not been able to find a diagram or schematic for the motor that gives me a blown version of its parts....any ideas where I can get one,short of e-mailing F&W ?

Thank you for your help.

PS

There are two allan-type headless screws that hold the shaft on.If I were to release them,would the motor then come free?
As I said before,the motor is only 5" from the wall and it is longer than that reach,so at best I could at least see 5" more than now or could I angle it off?
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:56 PM   #4
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new owner---old jet water pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by rise n' shine View Post
Bought a property with a non functioning well,3-5 years.

What I need is a manual to figure out how to prime the beast or overhaul it to get it running.

Is there anyone who can get me started with the info I have provided?

I would like to get this thing running ASAP.

FYI I already have the trench dug over 5 feet deep,(we get 4-6 feet of snow per year),running 120 psi 3/4 " line,brass fittings with PEX connectors(it all fits),yard hydrant with 5' down/2' up,but need to get the pump going before I bury anything.
It there one or two lines from the pump back to the well? I assume one, so thta is a shallow well jet pump,

The wet end may be full of rust stopping it from turning. I can't tell you how to take it apart. You may find a manual on Flint and Walling's web site.

You should be using 160 or 200 psi rated 1" or 1.25" PE pipe with insert/barbed fittings and double opossed SS hose clamps, instead of 3/4" anything.

PEX is not a good choice because the ID is smaller than 3/4" PE. PEX, copper, galvanized, CPVC are all CTS (copper tubing size), PE is IPS (iron pipe size). CTS maintains the OD, 3/4" is 7/8" OD, while IPS maintains the ID; 3/4" is 3/4" so you get more water with IPS. The 3/4" PEX is too small for suction line.

To prime it, remove the 2" plug in the outlet water line and pour water in until it fills the line and wet end of the pump and the line to and down the well. If it doesn't fill, you may have a leaking foot valve or line. If it won't pump, the jet in the wet end may be blocked.


Of course all that should be after you get the thing running, just don't run it dry more than to say it turns over or you can burn it up quick. I'd have water in first.
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Old 09-21-2008, 06:49 PM   #5
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new owner---old jet water pump


If the shaft turns hard, harder than you could turn a screw with a screwdriver, then there's a problem somewhere. On a pump like this, you should be able to reach in and grab the shaft coupling (the part with the allen setscrews) and turn it by hand.

There are 3 possible trouble spots here. These assumes the motor is electrically OK, and it can't turn the shaft.

1) The motor has a bearing on each end. A lot of pump motors have a ball bearing on the shaft end, and a sleeve bearing on the non-drive end. Ball bearings are permanently lubricated, and must be replaced if they go bad. Sleeve bearings are oil lubricated, and have some sort of a port, hole, oil cup, or some way to get oil to them. As an emergency measure, remove the cap at the center of the non-drive end, and squirt some WD40 onto the shaft.

2) There's a seal of some sort where the shaft comes out of the pump casing. These tend to seize up when the pump is either run dry, or hasn't been run in a long time. You need to take the pump casing apart and remove the impeller from the shaft to get at it.

3) The suction end of the impeller is closely machined to the suction end of the casing. Usually, the impeller is either brass or plastic, and the casing is cast-iron. The cast-iron will rust if no water flows through it for a long time, and the rust will squeeze down on the impeller.

If you remove the allen setscrews form the shaft coupling, you might be able to tell whether the pump or the motor is turning hard. If the motor turns easy with the setscrews removed, don't turn it on, to do so will 'round out' the shaft coupling, and ruin it.

The date code means the motor was made in January of 1975, but there are plenty of pumps this age still running though.

Rob

P.S. Is this pump horizontal, or vertical?
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:04 PM   #6
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new owner---old jet water pump


Some photos might help.
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:46 AM   #7
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new owner---old jet water pump


Thanks for the info.

I got the thing running with a little lubrication and manual turning to get out the cobwebs.When I turned it clockwise there was a metal on metal sound during the rotation at 9 o'clock let's say and if I turned it counter clockwise there wasn't.

Primed it with about a quart of water,over and over and over and over again to the point where the switch box starting smoking.Not sure if I fried it or just some silt that got overheated,since this happened three times.I was hoping that it would just start running.

I figured at some time I would have to get out the pipe wrench and put some water into the 2' outlet,so I will try that on Monday after work.At least the motor is running and that is a good start so far.

If I am just running water for a 5th wheel and horse trough....why go 1" vs 3/4 ? I thought 120psi ( or 160 , I forget ) on 3/4 was suffiicient over a 100 ' spread.Is there a significant difference? I imagine the 1" will be a bit more costly.
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:53 AM   #8
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new owner---old jet water pump


Thanks for the detailed info.

It is a horizontal mount.As mentioned previously I got the unit running but priming is an issue.I will attempt to run some water into the 2" and at that time find out if the foot valve is OK or not.

This is taking some time but has been an education and I will be better equipped for the future,....maybe :-)
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:12 AM   #9
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new owner---old jet water pump


On Monday when I took off the motor I exposed the 2" pipe and found out it was 26 feet to the bottom ? of the well or at least that is where it stops now. After filling it up with about 20 gallons of water,it kept draining,it finally filled to the point where I thought I could reattach the motor and give it a whirl since there would be water to draw up and out.
That's when I found out the motor was not running.

It is actually a centrifugal pump.The next day I took the motor to an old neighbour of mine who told me what kind it was and found out that the impellor was bent.That's why it kept jamming at the same spot all the time.After a lot of fiddling we got it running freely.

So now the motor is running and I want to see if I can get some water up.

The next question is....does the well sound like it is dry if it keeps draining so fast? I am told it is a sand point.

There is a foot valve attached just off the elbow on the back side of the impellor that attaches to the 2" pipe.

Could there be another foot valve down lower?

If I prime the whole system and then draw sand up in that water,can it do any damage to the impellor or anything else?

FYI The well,nor the pump, has not run for years and went through a flood 5 years ago.Could that have changed anything below the surface that far down?

I am getting closer to getting it running,so if anyone has any words of wisdom to help me get there,I am all ears.
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:47 PM   #10
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new owner---old jet water pump


You need to know how deep the surface of the water is in the well; that is the static water level. A single line shallow well pump can't suck water more than 25' @ sea level. A centrifugal pump is not near as good as a jet pump. They can't build the same pressure or draw water as well.

The check valve at the pump is a problem, you can't prime the pump and that line back past the check valve; it should be removed. There has to be a foot valve on the end of the drop pipe in the well, and you have to prime the line and the pump.

A check valve at the pump hides a leak in the drop pipe or the foot valve.
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Old 09-26-2008, 03:04 PM   #11
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Here's the latest.I have a feeling if there is a valve at the bottom of the line,that it is not functioning at all or it is random because when I try to prime the line,2" about 26' deep,it takes about 10-12 gallons before it fills to within 5' or so.Then when I do get it primed to the top and get some flow ( my friend gave me a hand pump that attaches to the 2' pipe and that is how I get the water up) I have hand pumped for over 5 minutes at a constant volume.The water is light grey/brown to almost clear.

BUT when I stopped for only 10 seconds I could not get my prime back without putting more water down the pipe.Here is the inconsistency.Once the line is filled to the top I have put my ear to the pipe to listen to it ' drain ' and count the seconds until the
' gurgling ' stops.Sometimes it takes 6-7 seconds or 23-24 seconds.Pretty much either / or , nothing in between.

Assuming the valve is hooped what are my options and how do I do it,step by step?
Can/should I add lengths? Starting with a length with a valve.
Just start over somewhere else? ( This would negate the 70 foot trench already dug for the line to go to the horses. )

FYI I have another sand point well on the property that is 36' deep and is working extremely well with cold,cold,clear water that is naturally filtered and has no issues at all.Based on their locations on the property and elevation difference,the lower one is the one not working and is about 10 feet lower than the upper one,over about 200 feet distance.My property is in/on an old creekbed on the valley floor at about 800 feet elevation about 2 miles from the foot of an 8000' mountain,if any of this matters.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:50 PM   #12
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Well until now I didn't know this was a sand point well. That makes a huge difference. I am not good on that type well. Usually there is a smaller line inside the outside line but not always. I think that depends on the type of pump. Try www.pumpsandtanks.com there's lots of help with your type well there.

You can't fill a well with water without it draining out, back into the strata.
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:39 AM   #13
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Thx Gary,I will give that forum a try.

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