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Old 02-13-2010, 07:53 PM   #31
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I am a DIY homeowner I have no clue as to what dynamic head is and how to calculate it. However, it is required in order for me to size the Grundfos appropriately.

I bought a foreclosure and the amount of work that needs to be done to this house I can wind up spending half of its value. However I need to do most of work myself since borrowing money is a thing of the past...

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Old 02-13-2010, 09:32 PM   #32
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I am a DIY homeowner I have no clue as to what dynamic head is and how to calculate it. However, it is required in order for me to size the Grundfos appropriately.

I bought a foreclosure and the amount of work that needs to be done to this house I can wind up spending half of its value. However I need to do most of work myself since borrowing money is a thing of the past...
To be honest you water system is not a good place to cut corners. Really you should have a driller do that part.

I would go with at least a one variable speed horsepower pump, with the SQE.

You still have not told us the well size. 5 inch or 4?? If it is 5 inch, the pipe is white. If 4 inch, it is metal.

Last edited by user69544; 02-13-2010 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:09 PM   #33
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I am a DIY homeowner I have no clue as to what dynamic head is and how to calculate it. However, it is required in order for me to size the Grundfos appropriately.
A CSV is much better and much less expensive.

TDH (total dynamic head) is the total friction pressure loss of the system including the pressure you turn the pump off at including elevation to the highest fixture in the house.

Start learning here;
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/pump.htm

Friction losses;
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/sprinkler09.htm

I believe you have 2' of screen. You said 75 for drawdown but so far no one knows the actual recovery rate gpm, and if you don't have like 25-30 gpm this well probably won't allow you to do what you are planning. It only takes a few months or a year or two for scale to build up on screening sufficiently enough to substantially reduce the flow through it.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:29 PM   #34
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Here's what I know current pump is Aermotor T series 12 gpm see attached...If I can't increase gpm then no need to change anything.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Well data.pdf (15.4 KB, 43 views)

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Old 02-14-2010, 12:05 AM   #35
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You have a 4" PVC casing and 2' of screen, and the well had 75 gpm recovery rate a number of years ago. The pump was set at 25' with a static water level of 8'.

A potential problem with PVC casing is heat build up in the pump 'welding' the pump to the PVC. Most submersible pumps are 3 7/8" ad in a 4" pipe, there is little cooling water flow around the motor and in a screen well like this, none around the wet end and the clearance is only 1/16". I think 4" and 5" wells should be outlawed.
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:21 AM   #36
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Here's what I know current pump is Aermotor T series 12 gpm see attached...If I can't increase gpm then no need to change anything.
The 4" PVC is not legal in Michigan.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:21 AM   #37
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You have a 4" PVC casing and 2' of screen, and the well had 75 gpm recovery rate a number of years ago. The pump was set at 25' with a static water level of 8'.

A potential problem with PVC casing is heat build up in the pump 'welding' the pump to the PVC. Most submersible pumps are 3 7/8" ad in a 4" pipe, there is little cooling water flow around the motor and in a screen well like this, none around the wet end and the clearance is only 1/16". I think 4" and 5" wells should be outlawed.
I have never had a problem getting a pump out of a 5" well. Why the DEQ will not let anyone drill the old 2" is they have to be taken apart to re-chlorinate. So, by the time the drop comes out to put the chlorine in, more contamination could go in the aquifer.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:43 PM   #38
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This is getting interesting to say the least. Heat production should be published? If pump remains submerged you'd think you'd have a boiling situation before it could stick to sides? If I get the 22 gpm Grundfos who's range is 7-33 gpm would still need a large pressure tank when water use is below 7 gpm which would be 90-95% of the time. Only sprinkler system and shower in full use will warrant. So the 15 gpm makes more sense at 4-20 gpm, but still bottom end is way above single faucet demand? Seems most lavatory faucets are capped at 1.5 gpm. I am now not understanding this Grundfos product.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:42 AM   #39
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This is getting interesting to say the least. Heat production should be published? If pump remains submerged you'd think you'd have a boiling situation before it could stick to sides? If I get the 22 gpm Grundfos who's range is 7-33 gpm would still need a large pressure tank when water use is below 7 gpm which would be 90-95% of the time. Only sprinkler system and shower in full use will warrant. So the 15 gpm makes more sense at 4-20 gpm, but still bottom end is way above single faucet demand? Seems most lavatory faucets are capped at 1.5 gpm. I am now not understanding this Grundfos product.
We use them (SQE) in big homes. Or, homes with irrigation systems. Or, for some they are a toy.

You are right about the water savor faucets. As soon as the people move in the house, we take the "water saver" parts out of the faucets. If that is what the customer wants.

I have never seen heat be a problem.

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Old 02-15-2010, 08:35 AM   #40
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This is getting interesting to say the least. Heat production should be published? If pump remains submerged you'd think you'd have a boiling situation before it could stick to sides? If I get the 22 gpm Grundfos who's range is 7-33 gpm would still need a large pressure tank when water use is below 7 gpm which would be 90-95% of the time. Only sprinkler system and shower in full use will warrant. So the 15 gpm makes more sense at 4-20 gpm, but still bottom end is way above single faucet demand? Seems most lavatory faucets are capped at 1.5 gpm. I am now not understanding this Grundfos product.
The tank for SQE is very small. 4 gallon. There is one pictured in a post of mine above. That is the tank the computer is mounted on.

Some of the Grundfos pumps are 3". This would be better in your well.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:02 AM   #41
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I will say on 4" metal water wells we don't pull the pumps because they are hard to get out. We replace the system with a 5" PVC. We did one this year for a customer. As much as we hate to work in the winter, it was an old customer, so we did it.

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Old 02-15-2010, 09:43 AM   #42
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Found these specs, all are 2.91" in diameter. Also, the pump is well protected against, heat, dry running and all the potential issues. Will need to get my wells current capacity. Is there a simple way I can check this? If my pump is at 25' where is the screen? The "well data" makes it seem like its at the bottom?

The water in the well above the screen is 19.59 gallons. Which weighs 163.57 lbs. Is there some value to knowing this? As this determines the pressure the water column pushes against the water trying to fill the well through the screen?

http://www.grundfos.com/web/HomeUs.n...256D2B0068E9B7

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Old 02-15-2010, 09:58 AM   #43
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This is getting interesting to say the least. Heat production should be published? If pump remains submerged you'd think you'd have a boiling situation before it could stick to sides?
Boiling water is fairly hot no? The pressure rating of PVC is done at 73F and higher temps reduce the pipe pressure rating as the temp increases above 73f which is way below 212F which is required at sea level to boil water. Like I said, a 4" pvc casing allows 1/8" clearance between the pump and the inside of the pipe and that is very little water although it is moving up from the screen past your motor until the pump shuts off and starts cooling. Plus I seriously doubt you can get a pump to hang straight enough to not touch the pipe when you only have a 1/16" clearance around it.

3" pumps are very expensive and hard to find.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:18 AM   #44
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Found these specs, all are 2.91" in diameter. That would give 9/16" around it. Also, the pump is well protected against, heat, dry running and all the potential issues. Will need to get my wells current capacity. Is there a simple way I can check this? If my pump is at 25' where is the screen? The "well data" makes it seem like its at the bottom?

http://www.grundfos.com/web/HomeUs.nsf/Webopslag/01770293014332D688256D2B0068E9B7

The water in the well above the screen is 19.59 gallons. Which weighs 163.57 lbs. Is there some value to knowing this? As this determines the pressure the water column pushes against the water trying to fill the well through the screen?

Capacity of well is still determining factor.


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Old 02-15-2010, 01:28 PM   #45
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The weight of a column of water is figured at .433 psi times the height. Yours is 25'-8' = 17' * .433 = 4.361 lbs.

You need to know the recovery rate gpm. And to do that you need to pump it a lot and usually with a large pump or air lift or purge with a bailer. If you lifted the pump a few feet and ran the water on the ground out the open end of the drop pipe to pull the water level down a foot or two watching the pump didn't run dry and then shut off the pump and measure the increase, you might be able to get an idea.

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