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Old 01-05-2011, 09:49 AM   #16
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New House + PEX + Plastic Fittings = ?


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Originally Posted by Homerepairguy View Post
GaryZ,

My take is that doing pressure tests cannot isolate your problem. Static pressure everywhere will measure the same just due to hydralics. Your problem is "volume" not pressure.

In post-1 above you said the outside hose bib on the newly plumbed line powers the kid's sprinkler no problem. Yet the other hose bib can't work the same kid's sprinkler. Your problem is there is something restricting the flow between those two hose bibs. You won't be able to find it by taking static pressure readings.

Is there a shutoff valve or water pressure reducer between the two hose bibs?

HRG
This pic shows the blue 1/2 inch out to the "problem" hose bib, going to the right. it is literally the first fixture after the meter. If you look on the very right of the pic you can see new line, which runs from a secondary meter which is in series after the primary water meter, so both bibs are flowing through the primary meter.


As for fixtures, I've already "updated" them to wife's liking, so they've been cleaned and inspected for debris and whatnot. I agree with the statement above that it's PEX done by a copper guy. That was my first though when I saw it, but didn't really think it was a "bad" thing... obviously since i bought the place.

The rest of the mechanicals look well installed, no concerns there (besides the couple spots where the cold air return blocking was creaky, but fixed that with some screws and a little extra blocking).

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Old 01-05-2011, 12:11 PM   #17
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New House + PEX + Plastic Fittings = ?


Just a quick suggestion for you GaryZ. I noticed that the duct work joints look like they haven't been sealed I'd suggest using either aluminum foil tape or mastic. As for the supply ducting I've used something like this, http://www.knaufinsulation.ca/produc...duct_wrap.aspx Every little bit helps!
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:10 PM   #18
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New House + PEX + Plastic Fittings = ?


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Originally Posted by GaryZ View Post
This pic shows the blue 1/2 inch out to the "problem" hose bib, going to the right. it is literally the first fixture after the meter. If you look on the very right of the pic you can see new line, which runs from a secondary meter which is in series after the primary water meter, so both bibs are flowing through the primary meter.
From your description it appears that your two hose bibs are connected like this:

Code:
 E=Elbow, T=Tee, = is 1" pex, - is 1/2" pex.

(Primary Meter)===(1" T)===------(E)---(E)---(E)---(T)----
The diagram is meant to show:
Primary meter out is 1" line, to 1" tee which feeds secondary meter. The other 1" tee output is necked down to 1/2" pex which is followed by three 1/2" elbows and a 1/2" tee. One output of the 1/2" tee feeds the problem hose bib. If the diagram is correct, with nothing else in the line to the problem hose bib, then yes, it must be the pex fittings restricting the flow to the problem hose bib.

In case this info can help you, when I was doing research for my pex installation, I measured the ID of a 1/2" crimp style pex fitting and it was about 3/8". It appears that a "rule of thumb" for crimp style fittings is that the ID of the fitting is one size smaller than the ID of the tubing. IOW, 3/4" fitting has 1/2" ID and 1/2" fitting has 3/8" ID.

OTOH, the ID of Uponor pro-pex expansion fittings are larger. For instance, The ID of a 3/4" pro-pex fitting is about 5/8". So Uponor pro-pex has less water restriction than the crimp style pex. --- Also, here's my personal take on crimp verses expansion fittings. With crimp style fittings, the edge of the fitting sits below the ID of the tubing creating additional water turbulence. With the Uponor expansion fittings, the tubing is expanded over the fitting so when it contracts, the ID of the tubing is about even with the ID of the fitting resulting in less turbulence. Just my personal take on this since I never read it anywhere for confirmation.

But I never knew how badly the crimp style fittings can restrict water flow until this thread. I guess with low static water pressure (like your 43 PSI) it is imperative to use 3/4" pex for all trunk lines with only bends at turns and not elbows.

Thanks for taking the time to post all of your pictures. Very informative thread!
HRG

EDIT: Oh BTW, where are the shut off valves located? Is there a separate shut off valve for the 1/2" pex lines and another shut off valve for the hose bib line that works well?

Last edited by Homerepairguy; 01-05-2011 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:44 PM   #19
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New House + PEX + Plastic Fittings = ?


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Originally Posted by Homerepairguy View Post
From your description it appears that your two hose bibs are connected like this:

Code:
 E=Elbow, T=Tee, = is 1" pex, - is 1/2" pex.
 
(Primary Meter)===(1" T)===------(E)---(E)---(E)---(T)----
The diagram is meant to show:
Primary meter out is 1" line, to 1" tee which feeds secondary meter. The other 1" tee output is necked down to 1/2" pex which is followed by three 1/2" elbows and a 1/2" tee. One output of the 1/2" tee feeds the problem hose bib. If the diagram is correct, with nothing else in the line to the problem hose bib, then yes, it must be the pex fittings restricting the flow to the problem hose bib.

In case this info can help you, when I was doing research for my pex installation, I measured the ID of a 1/2" crimp style pex fitting and it was about 3/8". It appears that a "rule of thumb" for crimp style fittings is that the ID of the fitting is one size smaller than the ID of the tubing. IOW, 3/4" fitting has 1/2" ID and 1/2" fitting has 3/8" ID.

OTOH, the ID of Uponor pro-pex expansion fittings are larger. For instance, The ID of a 3/4" pro-pex fitting is about 5/8". So Uponor pro-pex has less water restriction than the crimp style pex. --- Also, here's my personal take on crimp verses expansion fittings. With crimp style fittings, the edge of the fitting sits below the ID of the tubing creating additional water turbulence. With the Uponor expansion fittings, the tubing is expanded over the fitting so when it contracts, the ID of the tubing is about even with the ID of the fitting resulting in less turbulence. Just my personal take on this since I never read it anywhere for confirmation.

But I never knew how badly the crimp style fittings can restrict water flow until this thread. I guess with low static water pressure (like your 43 PSI) it is imperative to use 3/4" pex for all trunk lines with only bends at turns and not elbows.

Thanks for taking the time to post all of your pictures. Very informative thread!
HRG

EDIT: Oh BTW, where are the shut off valves located? Is there a separate shut off valve for the 1/2" pex lines and another shut off valve for the hose bib line that works well?
Scratched together a "diagram" that hopefully should explain the config:


Y'all are great, thanks for the feedback!

Should also mention that the 1" out to the sprinkler system has copper sweeps for 90 degree elbows, just for comparison.

Last edited by GaryZ; 01-05-2011 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:28 AM   #20
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New House + PEX + Plastic Fittings = ?


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Originally Posted by GaryZ View Post
Scratched together a "diagram" that hopefully should explain the config:

Missed the 3/4" lines before. Understand now.

1. What are the actual connections in the circle labeled "Meter"?

2. I don't see any shut off valves in your diagram. Where are they located?

3. What do the hexagon shaped symbols represent?

Maybe the info might help others understand your diagram too.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:41 AM   #21
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New House + PEX + Plastic Fittings = ?


BTW, does anyone have a 3/4" crimp style fitting? If so, please measure the ID of the fitting and post. I'm sure that the ID of the 1/2" crimp style fitting is just about 3/8" but can't find my notes on the actual ID of the 3/4" fitting. I know it has to be less than 5/8" but an accurate measurement would be appreciated.

Thanks,
HRG
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:22 AM   #22
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New House + PEX + Plastic Fittings = ?


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Originally Posted by Homerepairguy View Post
Missed the 3/4" lines before. Understand now.

1. What are the actual connections in the circle labeled "Meter"?

2. I don't see any shut off valves in your diagram. Where are they located?

3. What do the hexagon shaped symbols represent?

Maybe the info might help others understand your diagram too.
1. Off the top of my head; from the road, its 1" tubing to 1" brass adapter>valve>meter>valve>brass barbed adapter>pex
From main meter to 2nd meter it's a 1" copper Tee. Its all solid pipe from basically the first valve to the out side of each meter.
2. There are 1" Ball valves on both sides of each meter
3. The hexagons are gate valves. Cute, huh?

I suppose a picture would be a lot clearer, but that would have to wait till when I'm home.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:47 AM   #23
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New House + PEX + Plastic Fittings = ?


GaryZ, This post is getting long and I'm trying to get out the door to work, so I apologize if this has been mentioned already, I'm not taking the time to reread posts.
If one hose bib is not working well and it appears to be teed off the 3/4 line, have you tried to see if there is any blokage in it? Wood chips or rocks have been known to find their way into new pipes during construction.. just a thought

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