Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2007, 06:48 AM   #1
Mechanical Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 102
Share |
Question

New DWV system - whole house


Okay guys, here goes. I have an old house with (what I assumed to be) cast iron sewer pipes. It's a mish-mash of pipes and vents that serves a kitchen, two bathrooms, a utility sink, and a sump pump. I can't figure out why the system was ever built this way, but it was. There's was a 2" pipe that tapped into the side of the main sewer pipe just before it exits the building. The sewer pipe (assuming 4") exits the wall at an angle. The fittings/connections on the sewer pipe are the type where one end fits into another. As I was bullying the other end of the 2" pipe, I broke it out of the hole in the main sewer pipe, but it also broke out a small piece with it. A guy at Lowe's gave me the suggestion to just plug the hole with a screw-in plug and use some waterproof tape for now. I put the broken piece back in place and taped it. Then I used the stopper and plugged the hole. All things considered, it works pretty well. But this is only temporary until I can tear it all out next week.

There is a fitting just before the sewer pipe enters/exits the wall (the flange is almost in the wall), and the hole is in the next section of pipe inside the building. I have about 4" of pipe on the long side (remember, it's at an angle) and about 2" on the short side. So this is what I'm starting with. I'm going to run a new DWV system next week, which brings me to my question: "How do I tie into the existing sewer pipe?"

The guy at Lowe's told me to use a Fernco coupling and just connect the rest of the PVC as new, per code. Don't I need to fit the new PVC inside the sewer pipe? Or do I match up the end of the new PVC to the existing cast iron and use the Ferno coupling between the two? What's the best way to cut the old pipe? Pipe breaker? A sawz-all didn't work so well the last time. I'd like to minimize the mess.

gshock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 08:16 PM   #2
Mechanical Contractor
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 115
Default

New DWV system - whole house


You can use a chain snap or a sawzall, with the right blade the sawzall will give you a smoother cut. Lennox makes a great blade for cutting cast iron pipe. You can use a Fernco or NoHub coupling.

__________________
100% Union and proud of it.
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 06:53 AM   #3
Mechanical Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 102
Question

New DWV system - whole house


Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalDVR View Post
You can use a chain snap or a sawzall, with the right blade the sawzall will give you a smoother cut. Lennox makes a great blade for cutting cast iron pipe. You can use a Fernco or NoHub coupling.
A co-worker suggested that I drill out the lead putty around the hub and spigot, pull the old pipe out, and replace with PVC when I'm ready to do a new system. I have a sawzall and metal blades that worked great on the steam piping. His concern with the pipe breaker was that it would be too close to the existing break in the pipe and it might shatter, leaving me nothing to attach the Fernco coupling. He suggested just fitting a new PVC pipe into the existing hub in the wall.

What are your thoughts?

Last edited by gshock; 08-07-2007 at 08:01 AM.
gshock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 08:33 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,570
Default

New DWV system - whole house


I could be wrong but I think those PVC to cast hub adapters need to be leaded into the cast iron hub. Is that what your freind is talking about? You'd need to find a plumber who does lead work or learn how.

Can I ask why you are removing cast iron dwv?
jogr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 09:41 AM   #5
Mechanical Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 102
Thumbs up

New DWV system - whole house


Quote:
Originally Posted by jogr View Post
...those PVC to cast hub adapters need to be leaded into the cast iron hub.
Yes, that's exactly what he said. He's a mechanical engineer, like me, but he works with plumbing and fire protection and he did the same thing in his house. He said it wasn't too hard. I consider myself pretty handy and what he described didn't sound too difficult, just time consuming. But I'd rather get a good tight seal than use a Fernco coupling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jogr View Post
Can I ask why you are removing cast iron dwv?
I'm removing the DWV for two reasons. First, the old system has flaws that may cause me problems before I sell it. It's pitting pitting badly in a number of places along the pipes. The hubs are concealed in the wall, but are protruding on one side of the wall in certain areas. For example, one partition wall had the hub of the DWV pipe built into the lath. For resale value, and my own piece of mind, I want to remove the whole thing and replace. Second, I already damaged the pipe and made a temporary fix. There are two stories worth of cast iron DWV pipe coming into the basement, and I'd need to support that, then make another Fernco coupling at the wall hub. I'd rather not have a patch-work system, and the temporary fix certainly will draw attention at home inspection when I go to sell it.
gshock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 10:30 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,570
Default

New DWV system - whole house


I had the privilege to watch my father-in-law lead some cast iron dwv 20 years ago. He made it look easy but I could tell that it took skill and practice. I inherited his leading tools but have yet to try it. You'll probably do fine especially if your friend can help out. If it leaks just try again.

However, it seems like my father-in-law repaired a cracked hub on my frist house. He used some kind of repair clamp. This was a legitimate professional repair. So don't assume you have to rip it out.

What you are describing will be a lengthy expensive process - especially because of the walls involved. Many people consider the old cast iron pipe to be a greater value than PVC. So think hard about doing a lot of work and spending a lot of money on something that may not help you sell your house.

You might be money and time ahead to get in a plumber to repair the hub and spiff up your basement and dwv pipes with a coat of paint.
jogr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 10:42 AM   #7
Mechanical Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 102
Exclamation

New DWV system - whole house


Quote:
Originally Posted by jogr View Post
...What you are describing will be a lengthy expensive process - especially because of the walls involved. Many people consider the old cast iron pipe to be a greater value than PVC. So think hard about doing a lot of work and spending a lot of money on something that may not help you sell your house.
It could be, but I already have the entire house gutted down to the studs. I've re-wired the entire house, and I plan to replace the galvanized piping soon. Corrosion has reduced water pressure in many of the lines. And rusty water is present after several days of not using the fixtures.

Also, I didn't damage the hub. I damaged a drain tap that goes into the side of the drain pipe. There was a 2" drain pipe from another fixture that threaded into the side of this 4" drain pipe. It's the 4" pipe section that mates with the hub in the wall that's damaged. The hub on the piece in the wall is fine.

I'm not sure I see the value in cast iron drain pipe if it's corroding and pitting. In some spots, there are visible droplets of rust coming from the pipe.

Last edited by gshock; 08-07-2007 at 10:44 AM. Reason: Clarification
gshock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 11:33 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,570
Default

New DWV system - whole house


If its corroded through then it's got to go. Just be sure it's not surface rust/pitting from condensation droplets or from minor leaks in the lead joint that could be easily fixed. I've never seen a cast iron pipe corrode through but I guess it could happen.
jogr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 11:52 AM   #9
Mechanical Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 102
Default

New DWV system - whole house


The home inspector said that he has seen this a lot. He said that over time, the pipe corrodes and pits and eventually develops these pinhole leaks that lead to the small rust deposits on the outside. There are other sections of pipe in the building that are fine. But there are two main lines that tie in together before entering the drain pipe to the sewer and both are badly pitted and corroding.
gshock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 06:46 PM   #10
Union HVAC Tech.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 607
Default

New DWV system - whole house


You will need special tools (joint runner/ inner-outter irons)that maybe hard to find for pouring lead joints. Adding too much oakum can also blow a hub apart. This process is what made Ferncos so popular.
bigMikeB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2007, 10:08 PM   #11
Mechanical Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 102
Default

New DWV system - whole house


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigMikeB View Post
You will need special tools (joint runner/ inner-outter irons)that maybe hard to find for pouring lead joints. Adding too much oakum can also blow a hub apart. This process is what made Ferncos so popular.

MikeB, thanks for the head's up. This joint will be coming out of the wall, so I can't "pour" anything into the hub. My co-worker suggested packing the oakum in with a screwdriver and putting a lead putty in to seal it and smoothing it off with a brick mortar putty knife. What are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback.
gshock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 08:08 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,570
Default

New DWV system - whole house


They do pour lead into horizontal hubs. There is a special rubber and metal ring that clamps to the hub with a port to pour the molten lead into the top of the ring. Then you have to work the lead with the irons.

That's the way my FIL did it 20 years ago. Never heard of lead putty but maybe there's a shortcut like that now.
jogr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 06:20 PM   #13
Union HVAC Tech.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 607
Default

New DWV system - whole house


Quote:
Originally Posted by gshock View Post
MikeB, thanks for the head's up. This joint will be coming out of the wall, so I can't "pour" anything into the hub. My co-worker suggested packing the oakum in with a screwdriver and putting a lead putty in to seal it and smoothing it off with a brick mortar putty knife. What are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback.
The joint runner is for vertical joints, you need a caulking iron to get the oakum in right, and finishing irons to seal the inside and outside edges of the lead to the pipe and hub. That's why I think the Fernco is the best and only code like way to go. Never heard of lead putty, so I can't say it legal.
bigMikeB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2007, 10:20 PM   #14
Mechanical Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 102
Default

New DWV system - whole house


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigMikeB View Post
The joint runner is for vertical joints, you need a caulking iron to get the oakum in right, and finishing irons to seal the inside and outside edges of the lead to the pipe and hub. That's why I think the Fernco is the best and only code like way to go. Never heard of lead putty, so I can't say it legal.
I'm putting a PVC pipe into the hub of a cast iron pipe. Do I want to use a caulking iron and finishing irons on that? Won't that melt the PVC. The guy I work with knows all the NYS codes for plumbing. I do mostly HVAC stuff so I usually only look at mechanical codes.
gshock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 05:52 PM   #15
Mechanical Contractor
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 115
Default

New DWV system - whole house


Quote:
Originally Posted by gshock View Post
I'm putting a PVC pipe into the hub of a cast iron pipe. Do I want to use a caulking iron and finishing irons on that? Won't that melt the PVC. The guy I work with knows all the NYS codes for plumbing. I do mostly HVAC stuff so I usually only look at mechanical codes.
You need a pvc hub adapter to attach it to cast iron, after you pour the lead let it cool or you will distort the pvc. After it cools to room temp you can caulk the lead to the pipe and bell. The only code for lead in you case is that the space left for lead is 1" deep, the rest is filled with oakum.

__________________
100% Union and proud of it.
MechanicalDVR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cape Cod Style House Attic/Crawl Space Insulation Help Danielg Insulation 24 05-21-2012 08:20 AM
200 Amp service really needed for a 830 sq ft house? overkill? alexz Electrical 7 11-16-2009 05:54 PM
Honeywell Y8150 Whole House Ventilation system carquote HVAC 16 03-05-2009 01:06 PM
Size A/C system properly 70stang HVAC 1 03-26-2006 07:22 PM
Replace furnace, coil and duct system sps123 HVAC 2 01-07-2006 10:56 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.