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Old 05-13-2013, 12:58 PM   #1
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New Delta rough in valve question


Hi all,

I'm retrofitting an old 3 handled shower/tub valve to one of these Delta Mutltichoice single handled antiscald valves. I'm using a aftermarket plate under the new valve trim. I've got a question regarding Delta's instructions regarding the tub faucet drop requirement of at least 8 inches. The hole in this fiberglass one piece surround will not allow that requirement. I have only about a 5 inch pipe maximum. My question is why this pipe minimum requirement? And, if it is necessary, would a 8 inch pipe with a 180 degree turn back up and a 90 deg elbow out to the faucet fulfil this necessity. Thanks for your consideration. The guys at HD had no clue as to why the requirement.

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:46 PM   #2
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New Delta rough in valve question


Not familiar with that valve off the top of my head, but I've never encountered that in any other tub outlets for shower/tub configurations.

Are you sure that was not a distance for the horizontal nipple that screws into the tub spout...

Call Delta before going to that obtuse pipeing run.... can't imagine what it would be

Good luck

Edit: PS Are you sure it's a requirement, and not just their general recommendations as to shower distances.
Could it be a possible conflict with their standard trim pieces.

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Old 05-13-2013, 02:43 PM   #3
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Mtn Remo,

Thanks for the reply. Nope, they indicate it as the down pipe out of the valve. I started with my query here because I called Delta for a previous question and although the phone "tech" tried to be very helpful, it was obvious he had little clue to what he was doing and it took me a long time on the phone to get a reasonable answer. I figured if anyone knew, I'd get a quicker answer here. I should add that Delta has a FAQ site, and someone asked if they could use a shorter pipe and Delta's answer was "sorry but no" with no explanation.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:50 PM   #4
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Mtn Remo,

Thanks for the reply. Nope, they indicate it as the down pipe out of the valve. I started with my query here because I called Delta for a previous question and although the phone "tech" tried to be very helpful, it was obvious he had little clue to what he was doing and it took me a long time on the phone to get a reasonable answer. I figured if anyone knew, I'd get a quicker answer here. I should add that Delta has a FAQ site, and someone asked if they could use a shorter pipe and Delta's answer was "sorry but no" with no explanation.
My curoisity is dying to know.... On that tub spout, is it a diverter on the end of the spout,,, where you pull up the nob, it blocks tub flow and diverts to shower... or how is it diverted.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:15 PM   #5
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Ah hah, didn't even think about that but it is a tub spout mounted diverter and it probably needs the eight inches to prevent water from leaking up and out of the shower during tub filling. I bet you were thinking the same thing. If anyone can confirm that, I'd be interested. It's probably not a problem because nobody takes a bath in that tub anyway. I could also add a stop valve at the shower head.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:02 PM   #6
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Ah hah, didn't even think about that but it is a tub spout mounted diverter and it probably needs the eight inches to prevent water from leaking up and out of the shower during tub filling. I bet you were thinking the same thing. If anyone can confirm that, I'd be interested. It's probably not a problem because nobody takes a bath in that tub anyway. I could also add a stop valve at the shower head.
Actually Bonz.... I was wondering if it might be some type of turbulence thing, that somehow effected the pressure or temperature balancing function of the valve... that some engineer and (the attorneys) got worried about and a longer drop somehow mitigates the turbulence type thing.

Not saying.... just wondering.

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Old 05-13-2013, 08:48 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bonzoso View Post
Hi all,

I'm retrofitting an old 3 handled shower/tub valve to one of these Delta Mutltichoice single handled antiscald valves. I'm using a aftermarket plate under the new valve trim. I've got a question regarding Delta's instructions regarding the tub faucet drop requirement of at least 8 inches. The hole in this fiberglass one piece surround will not allow that requirement. I have only about a 5 inch pipe maximum. My question is why this pipe minimum requirement? And, if it is necessary, would a 8 inch pipe with a 180 degree turn back up and a 90 deg elbow out to the faucet fulfil this necessity. Thanks for your consideration. The guys at HD had no clue as to why the requirement.
only reason i can recall is if the length is too short it will leak for shower head while filling tub.....ben sr.....no the way your thinking to get 8" buy 90 up and back down will not work..
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:00 PM   #8
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Bonz..... I think there are certain things in life that we are not destined to know:

1) Where Jimmy Hoffa is buried

2) If God is all powerfull, can he make a rock that he can not lift

3) Why the hell you need a 8" tub drop

If this thread dies and you discover the answer to any of them, could you PM me.

Thanks

Peter
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:05 PM   #9
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seems like there was an issue with backpressure if spout drop is too short ..ben sr
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:11 AM   #10
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Ben's,

I think you're right. As I looked more and more into it online it seems that you can also only have one 90 deg turn so must have to do with restriction. Also you can't use pex for that piece of plumbing due to the slightly narrower i.d.. All these things apparently restrict the water flow enough to cause rise in the shower pipe. Like I said, I'll plumb it with 5 inch pipe, to fit the existing hole and put a chrome shutoff at the showerhead. If anyone uses the tub and it bothers them they can use the shutoff.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:25 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bonzoso View Post
Ben's,

I think you're right. As I looked more and more into it online it seems that you can also only have one 90 deg turn so must have to do with restriction. Also you can't use pex for that piece of plumbing due to the slightly narrower i.d.. All these things apparently restrict the water flow enough to cause rise in the shower pipe. Like I said, I'll plumb it with 5 inch pipe, to fit the existing hole and put a chrome shutoff at the showerhead. If anyone uses the tub and it bothers them they can use the shutoff.
Bonz.... Just as a point of interest, clearly the one 90 and no pex requirement indicates it could be a "restriction" issue. HOWEVER, note that the longer pipe requirement technically INCREASES "restrictiion".

I do think it may have to do with "turbulence" which acts as a a type of restriction if it backsplashes back up into the valve.

I have difficulty in thinking that it's an issue of a leaking shower head, unless there is some diverter control in the valve itself that a backpressure/turbulence trips. If that was a standard type "flow thru" diverter, you would need alot of back pressure to lift water 4 feet up the shower riser.

Maybe you want to thread it up (not sweat it) and test it first before you close up your shower wall.

I can't believe that it will be a problem, but I can't believe the valve has those manufacturers instructions either.

Let us know... for curiosity

Peter
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:26 AM   #12
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Yes Mtn.,

I'll let you know how it turns out. Could even be a little more gravity working on it w/ an 8 in. but certainly, without doing a physics study, it doesn't appear to be enough to cause the problem. It seems to me it would also have a water pressure effect.
Anyway it might just be a combination of factors that together would cause the problem and Delta is just covering their a** against complaints.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:19 PM   #13
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finished this project. Used 4.5 inches of copper pipe with a threaded sharkbite connection to the valve. Probably 6 inches total drop. Works fine. No leaking from showerhead when tub spout running.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:15 PM   #14
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finished this project. Used 4.5 inches of copper pipe with a threaded sharkbite connection to the valve. Probably 6 inches total drop. Works fine. No leaking from showerhead when tub spout running.
GOOD

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