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-   -   My hose valve burst AGAIN! (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/my-hose-valve-burst-again-169945/)

Red Squirrel 01-23-2013 09:55 PM

My hose valve burst AGAIN!
 
I was measuring my basement as I want to start finishing it, and noticed that my hose valve burst again. Thankfully it was off from inside!

http://gal.redsquirrel.me/thumbs/lrg-1531-dsc04828.JPG

The exact same thing happened to me last year. This one I got a pro to install figuring I must have done something wrong when I installed mine.

I am not about to turn it on right now to confirm, but pretty sure it's not suppose to be bulged like that. :huh:


It's a frost free, which is left on outside, and that blue valve is closed. This probably happened recently as we've been getting -40's.

What should I do to stop this from happening every year? It's getting expensive having to replace this each spring. Oddly I have a frost free on the other side of the house and it's fine. That one makes me more nervous given it's near the electrical panel, all I have to say is I've been lucky. :eek:

I'm wondering if leaving it open left the cold air travel through the pipe and turn into frost, then eventually expanding. I'm thinking I will need to install some kind of heater on there. Maybe coil some wire and pass low voltage current through it or something.

paul100 01-23-2013 10:29 PM

my best guess is that your valve is installed angled back into the house and the water cannot drain out. The valve must be angled slightly outwards so water can drain out.

DannyT 01-23-2013 10:35 PM

and make sure you disconnect the hose.

Red Squirrel 01-23-2013 10:43 PM

When I disconnected the hose in August before the first frost I also opened the little drain plug. No water came out.

What's odd is that it's only doing it to this one. The other one is on the north side, this one is on the south side. Could that do anything? I'm wondering if over time snow gets in, the sun makes it melt, then it freezes, and repeat the process.

I think for the next one I install I will leave it closed in winter to see if that helps. Though I think my last one I did leave it closed too.

Missouri Bound 01-23-2013 10:45 PM

The angle of the pipe and disconnecting the hose are the two major issues. But on that blue valve you have a small knob....that allows any water to drain which may be in the pipe, or in your case valve. With the blue valve off, open that little cap....if water squirts out, the valve is installed backwards. Water should just drip out and empty the valve. That is an odd place for the bulge though....are you sure it wasn't like that when it was installed? Usually they will split along the tube near the middle, not at the valve.

Red Squirrel 01-23-2013 10:55 PM

Yep hose disconnected, and it was drained, and the little arrow on it indicates it's installed correctly. Was a pro that did it for like 300 bucks so it better be done right!

It bulged at the same spot last year too, this is the one I installed:

http://gal.redsquirrel.me/thumbs/lrg-1300-dsc04346.JPG

I had the hose disconnected since August before the first frost and I had also opened that little drain plug but nothing came out, guess it is angled right.

kreemoweet 01-24-2013 01:31 AM

Since you live in such an extreme climate, you might consider altering your hose bibb setup so the water cutoff is much further away from the outside, and leaving
a drain outlet open after the valve to ensure any leakage from the valve does not refill the pipe. Some frost-free bibbs have a spring-loaded sealing washer which
does not actually open unless the water supply pressure pushes it open. Thus, any tiny seepage past the valve will refill the pipe and accumulate at the
hose bibb valve seat, and possibly be frozen there. Just like your photos show may have happened.

Bondo 01-24-2013 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Squirrel (Post 1100575)
When I disconnected the hose in August before the first frost I also opened the little drain plug. No water came out.

What's odd is that it's only doing it to this one. The other one is on the north side, this one is on the south side. Could that do anything? I'm wondering if over time snow gets in, the sun makes it melt, then it freezes, and repeat the process.

I think for the next one I install I will leave it closed in winter to see if that helps. Though I think my last one I did leave it closed too.

Ayuh,... If it's drained, it can't freeze, 'n burst...

Leave the outdoor faucet open, 'n the valve drain open...
Then there's No how, No way for water to collect, freeze, 'n burst the pipe...

gregzoll 01-24-2013 08:57 AM

If that is a gate valve, replace with a Ball valve. It could be allowing water to get past, and collect in the line between it and the shutoff outside. Also you could try the mushroom caps that go over hose bib's, to see if that cuts down on it getting so cold, it is causing the problem.

fred54 01-24-2013 09:03 AM

I have no advice or insight to offer but adter reading -40's and first frost in August I will no longer worry about the positively balmy 15 degree NJ weather.

Stay warm!

One piece of advice, I would put in a regular hose bib (with PVC if allowed, less temp transferance)) on as long a run as possible in your basement to shutoff valve with a drain, pitched toward the outside if possible. No way it could freeze at that point.

jagans 01-24-2013 10:13 AM

Is the bleeder open?

Red Squirrel 01-24-2013 02:40 PM

Bleeder is closed, valve is open, and hose is disconnected, but I'm wondering, if I should have just left it open. I opened it to drain but no water came out, it had already drained all outside.

I think for the next one I'll just look at putting some kind of heat source. I have a valve upstream of that as well, perhaps I should be closing that valve too, and pumping air into it. Do they make quick connect connectors that would connect to standard 1/2 plumbing? The only thing I can think of is that the valve did indeed leave a bit of water through over time.

rjniles 01-24-2013 03:54 PM

Install a regular sillcock. When you winterize, close the inside shutoff, remove the cap on the bleeder(and leave it off) and leave the outside open.

DidIDoThat 01-24-2013 04:49 PM

your over thinking this.

If the bib has a down ward sloop it will drain off and will not freeze.
When you replace it , drill the whole out a little larger and put a small shim in there so the front of the bib is slightly lower than the back ,where the water connects.

Red Squirrel 01-24-2013 05:26 PM

That's the thing though, it DOES slope down. When I shut off the inside valve in summer and opened it outside, a bunch of water came out. I left it as is (open, no hose attached). Went inside, unscrewed the little drain plug, no water came out.

I suspect as mentioned, the valve may be leaking slightly, so there was probably a small stream of water going down over a very long period of time. Chances are the water never made it down before it froze. Just kept accumulating till it burst.

So here's what I think I'll do: Install another frost free (standard ones are harder to find nowdays), ensure it is slopped again. Hook it up to a T that is pointing down. A drain valve will be installed there. The other end of the T will just go straight to the supply which has it's own shut off valve further down. To winterize I will shut off the far shut off, open the valve outside, open the valve for the drain and let excess drain into a bucket, and go back outside and close the valve. I'm thinking leaving it open caused cold air to just travel into the empty pipe. So probably best I just leave it turned off. Or if I can find some kind of cap, even better as it will stop the air right outside. I'll leave the drain valve open all year except for summer. I'll just have to make sure the drain goes to a drain pipe or something.

Think that should work?

I'm still confused why it keeps doing it to this one, and not the other one though. The other one does not even have any shut off, and it is kept closed all winter. And it's on the north side of the house to make matters worse.


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