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anarolf 09-07-2013 01:34 PM

Moen McGyver plan
Hello all, looking for some lateral thinking. Here's my problem: my daughters' bathroom has a standard Moen Posi-Temp Single-Handle Tub/Shower valve (Eva trim). Upon installation of tub, we realized the P-trap would interfere with a 2x12 Floor Joist almost immediately underneath, so the tub end cannot be flush with the wall. We will have to make it a deck surround, with a 6-inch build-out at the front. Sticking a standard faucet into the vertical face of the surround would look silly, I'm set on placing a Roman Tub spout with diverter on the horizontal deck. I scored a open-box Eva T944BN Roman Tub with shower diverter trim set on Amazon for a good price, but since I'm not going to be using the trim handles, I don't want to waste money on the expensive Roman Tub with shower rough-in valve (Moen 9796), as I would end up chopping off the Hot/Cold inputs to the spout tube, and feeding it direct from the Posi-Temp valve. I would much prefer to purchase a standard Roman Tub spout shank (Moen 4998) like this one:
Problem is, I don't know whether its threaded on the inside to receive the diverter kit (Moen 161772). Can anyone speak to this? I realize a pro plumber would probably have to answer this, but their forums don't want DIY guys on there. Any help would be appreciated.

Ghostmaker 09-07-2013 01:43 PM

Its a solder joint on the input side.

anarolf 09-07-2013 01:50 PM

Yeah, I see that, I can handle the soldering, I'm concerned about the inner thread at the spout connection end, whether its threaded and a standard diameter to accept the diverter kit, just trying to avoid ordering the stuff and finding out they don't fit. I realize this is an unusual setup, single handle shower control with roman spout!

TheEplumber 09-07-2013 02:32 PM

199 Attachment(s)
Did you consider going to They have spec sheets for all their stuff.

Side note- tubs are available that allow you to put the shoe on top the floor. Or you can get a straight tub shoe.
You can also fur the wall out for a normal spout. I assume you pursued all those alternatives already....

Ghostmaker 09-07-2013 02:43 PM

It uses a o ring and lock allen key the spout.

You are planning on not keeping the shower I hope.

anarolf 09-08-2013 08:56 AM

I probably crashed Moen's site a couple times! Went as far as Dling the CAD files tring to see if there is inside thread and whether its a common diameter. Have to keep the shower functional, kids are active. Furring not an option, everything is setup against that wall (water lines, Tankless heater, head, sink, etc.) Kohkler deep soak tub purchased beforehand, so I'm stuck. Since the items are fairly cheap, I think I'll take the chance, worst case scenario, I'll have to shell out $175 for the proper rough-in valve. Thanks guys.

Ghostmaker 09-08-2013 10:01 AM

If your keeping the shower how are you waterproofing the build out?

I would suggest using a high quality liquid waterproofer over your cement board.

wkearney99 09-08-2013 10:29 AM

Before you go through all this trouble, just what part of the joist would need to be removed to make a normal setup work? Joists can often be altered without dramatically harming their intended purpose. It all depends on where the cut needs to be made, the span of the joist and what other means might be needed/possible to better manage the loads that need supporting.

That and a picture or a Google Sketchup rendering of what you're trying to do might help.

plumberinlaw 09-08-2013 10:19 PM

how about sistering a joist to the existing and notching the top of them?

anarolf 09-09-2013 05:36 AM

forgot to mention this is a bathroom reno, downstairs is finished, as are the surrounding rooms & hallway, can't rip up to alter joist. Bathroom tile work was so shoddy couldn't take it anymore. Room dimensions are 7x11 so went with a 6-foot tub, no returns! I'm also nervous about tub load in the area, even though I have 2x12 joists at 16" over 15' span, I just don't want to mess with them unless absolutely necessary. Ghostmaker, this liquid waterproofer, does multi-purpose thinset adhere to it after curing or ceramic tile adhesive? Was just going to use some leftover Ice & Water shield on the treated Ply under the Durock, but this stuff sounds like good insurance.

oh'mike 09-09-2013 06:10 AM

There are several paint on waterproofing products that will do what you need---

My favorite is Hydroban by Latacrete---

Redguard by Custom is another---in the last few years a couple other brands have hit the market---but I have not tried them yet.---all accept thinset and tile---

wkearney99 09-09-2013 06:47 AM

But plodding along with what might be a bad plan isn't going to get better over time. You might not 'want' to change things but ignoring structural needs is not something to compromise because of simple drywall repairs and paint. Nor is using 'left over' stuff just because it's there.

Yes, stuff like RedGuard does a fine job of acting as a base for thinset. I used it in a bath and when I demolished it some years later the bond between the RedGuard, thinset, tiles and backer board was still phenomenally strong.

What about furring out the wall(s) around where you'd like to place the tub? Just how is the 7x11 laid out in relation to the tub? Is the 6' tub in the 7' width? So then why not just bump out the wall along one or both of the walls along the ends? Or along the length of the tub to shift where it's drain would need to go?

Letting yourself be forced into a bad plan based on the wrong products because they were 'bargains' rarely turns out well in the long run.

anarolf 09-09-2013 09:18 AM

I hear you loud & clear, wkearney, not a believer in shortcutting myself, think you may have misread my comment on the joists. Its because I don't want to disturb a sound structure, that I'm seeking a functional workaround. The wall bump-out makes good sense, I considered it, but thought the deck would give a better aesthetic. I happened to have a half roll of Grace I&W Shield (the good stuff) and it seals around smooth nails, so would provide good sub seal under the cement board down to the tub flange lap (I'm not a tradesman, don't know the correct terms). There are also extra-long spouts, In fact I bought one, but it looks just like it sounds. Aside from the Redguard on the cement board, what would you suggest as primary waterproofing on the flat deck? I have a .dxf of my floor plans, does Sketchup open that file type?

wkearney99 09-09-2013 09:30 AM

Yet the products aren't sold for that purpose. As the saying goes "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

This is why I asked for a picture or a diagram explaining what you're actually seeking to build. I suggested furring out the walls so you'd have a straight vertical surface over which water will properly flow. When you start introducing bumped out areas with horizontal surfaces (decks, bulkheads, etc) you're asking for moisture problems. Both from anything leaking behind them AND with anything just pooling on them.

A wall sheets the moisture down, gravity does most of the work. Whereas with any horizontal surfaces you're then depending more upon evaporation instead of just gravity. So you want to take what's largely considered to be a very workable tub surround concept and bastardize it because of not wanting to work around existing structure. And force the use of 'bargains' to make it happen. That's essentially it, right?

The words "we told you so" will ring hollow when you're faced with untangling the mess later on.

anarolf 09-09-2013 09:40 AM

C'mon WKearney, turn off the disdain for a sec! I respect your opinion, and a word to the wise is sufficient! If you guys think there is no reliable way to seal a tub surround subjected to shower spray, then I have to factor that in and adjust the plan, the tub end wall build-out is easy to do, and I can recycle the trim kit on ebay...

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