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Old 12-07-2009, 11:00 PM   #1
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lifting fresh water 125'


Hi everyone,
I need to figure out how best to pump fresh lake water a good 100-125 feet up a 45 degree grade into holding tanks. Once the water arrives up top it will be filtered, chlorinated and stored in 55 gal. barrels for distribution through a more or less conventional RV type water system throughout my cabin. No drinking water, of course; just showers and sinks.
I've looked at gas engine 'jet pumps' but since I already have a generator for power needs I'm wondering if there is an electric pump powerful enough and less costly (we're talking about $240 for the gas version).
I really would prefer to not have yet another gas engine to worry about.
Thanks for your input.

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Old 12-08-2009, 12:23 AM   #2
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lifting fresh water 125'


My uncle has an electric pump in the bottom of his well. I believe it's 400 feet deep. I helped him pull it out for some reason (don't remember). It was amazingly small. Probably not cheap either.

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Old 12-08-2009, 12:34 AM   #3
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lifting fresh water 125'


Depending on your elevation, and then the rise in elevation above the water surface, and the type and diameter of pipe, a 1/2 or 3/4hp 10-13 gpm submersible well pump is probably the only way. But it's going to be 2-3 times the $240.
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Old 12-08-2009, 12:42 PM   #4
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lifting fresh water 125'


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
Depending on your elevation, and then the rise in elevation above the water surface, and the type and diameter of pipe, a 1/2 or 3/4hp 10-13 gpm submersible well pump is probably the only way. But it's going to be 2-3 times the $240.
Hi Gary,
The actual straight vertical rise is more like about 75 feet but since the incline is about 45 degrees I taped the total distance from the surface of the lake to the point where the storage barrels will be located at about 125 feet, assuming that all of this length had to be included when taking into account the total lift and pump head capacity. I don't need a high pressure output, just enought to fill two 55 gal. barrels, even if it takes 20-30 minutes. I will actually be using a garden hose, typically 5/8" or so to do this.
I've spent a good deal of time looking into the gas powered jet pumps because that seems to be what everyone else I know uses, but it occured to me that since I just invested in a portable generator I should see if I can put my money into a better electric pump rather than buy another gas engine pump.
Here is a photo of the jet pump that is typical of what others use.
Thanks for any suggestions.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:13 PM   #5
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lifting fresh water 125'


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Originally Posted by bobrok View Post
The actual straight vertical rise is more like about 75 feet
two 55 gal. barrels, even if it takes 20-30 minutes.

I will actually be using a garden hose, typically 5/8" or so to do this.
HP = HDxGPM/(40xEFF)
Taking EFF to be 60%
=75x4/2400 = 1/8 hp.

Add'tl head due to pipe loss, check
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pe...oss-d_619.html
E.g.,
cold water in plastic pipe,
ID = 0.5", 4.8 GPM, 5 ft/sec, 8.8 psi drop per 100'
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:34 PM   #6
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lifting fresh water 125'


I don't know if this is a feasable idea for you, but you could get a very large 12v submersable bilge pump from a boat say 2000-3000gph for probably $250 and it should be able to fill the barrels at that height. It may take a while because of the head.
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Old 12-08-2009, 03:31 PM   #7
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lifting fresh water 125'


Bobrok, I think you're probably better off with the gas engine pump instead of a regular submersible well pump. Mostly because you don't need to run electric to the lake.
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Old 12-08-2009, 03:51 PM   #8
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lifting fresh water 125'


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
HP = HDxGPM/(40xEFF)
Taking EFF to be 60%
=75x4/2400 = 1/8 hp.

Add'tl head due to pipe loss, check
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pe...oss-d_619.html
E.g.,
cold water in plastic pipe,
ID = 0.5", 4.8 GPM, 5 ft/sec, 8.8 psi drop per 100'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
Bobrok, I think you're probably better off with the gas engine pump instead of a regular submersible well pump. Mostly because you don't need to run electric to the lake.
Just for fun I tried my 120v. 1/6 HP submersible sump to a garden hose last year and got about 25 feet head. I guess doing the math shows that I need a monster submersible pump and that doesn't take into account potential loss of voltage dropping 125 feet of cord into the abyss or potential loss of limb carting the generator down there .
I guess I am better off with the lightweight gas jobbie, huh?

Thanks everyone for your input. I really like this forum; lots of good help and nice folk here!

Wishing a Happy Holiday season to everyone.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:16 PM   #9
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lifting fresh water 125'


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Just for fun I tried my 120v. 1/6 HP submersible sump to a garden hose last year and got about 25 feet head.
You may need a "positive displacement pump".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump

1/6 hp @ 120v = 4A? For 5% drop with 125' cord you'd need #16, copper.

Depending on how often you need to do this, you might want a battery operated pump, with solar/other charging for the battery.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 12-08-2009 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:28 PM   #10
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lifting fresh water 125'


Do you think an old swimming pool pump could work (A/C, of course)?

Edit: I found this. Am I missing a major piece of knowledge or information here or might this work?
http://www.waterpumpsdirect.com/Wayne-PLS100/p2771.html

Last edited by bobrok; 12-08-2009 at 08:00 PM. Reason: I don't like high post counts so i bundle them ;-)
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:21 PM   #11
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BUMP

Sorry to do this, but I thought a fresh set of eyes on my OP might help, esp. since I haven't bought anything yet.
With respect,
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:39 PM   #12
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lifting fresh water 125'


maybe it's just me but I would think 2 5 gallon buckets would be the best. Using them is environmentally sound. You do not have to worry about maintenance, no gas and no electric needed and it will keep you in shape.



if the other folks use a gas pump like you pictured and that does a good job, look at the specs on one of those and look for a similar style pump with similar specs only run by an electric motor.
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:50 PM   #13
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nap:

HA, yes the simple solution is often the one first overlooked, except that I have already tried it and I'm just too darned old for that; it's way too steep a climb.

OTOH & rather than edit my post let me add that I just spoke with a tech rep at Wayne Pumps and he completely talked me out of using any electric pump in favor of a gas engine due to the fact that my power is generator supplied (I'm off grid). I have to say I think he did me a big favor because I also read a product review about a user who burned out his brand new electric pump trying this. Startup amperage draw is the killer on electric.

Despite my appreciation for saving the environment I am looking for recommendations on portable gas pumps.

Thanks.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:00 PM   #14
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lifting fresh water 125'


there is not a problem with running a pump on a generator as long as the generator is large enough to handle the inrush current the motor draws. That can be considerable.


and to support that point; up until the solar came into play, all power we use is made using a generator.

but, if the generator is not does not have the capacity, yes, you can damage the pump and/or the generator by over taxing the generator.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:46 PM   #15
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lifting fresh water 125'


My place is a camp, not a residence, and our electical needs are kept to a bare minimum by design. I just bought a Honda EU2000i to power the place up when our solar capacity was drained. This is major adequate for our needs but yet provides far less amperage than what I would need according to the pump guy for that Wayne pump I show up top in a previous post. He told me the current draw on startup for that pump was something over 5000 watts. Generator lugs down - pump motor thermal trips - generator powers back up to speed - pump cuts back in - redo again. I can see problems here.

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