kitchen wall drain outlet higher than trap arm

Druidia · 10-08-2011, 10:41 PM

My kitchen drain sink is leaking from the strainer. The fiber washer is warped and the rubber washer is not snug against the underside of the sink. I think that's because the strainer down to the tailpiece are askew (bottom end slightly slanted to the left)(photo 1). I think the original installer (we bought the condo several years ago freshly renovated by a developer) deliberately did that to align the tailpiece with the tee and P trap which could not be centered with the sink hole without compromising insertion of the trap arm to the adapter-wall drain outlet pipe. It also looks like the original installer compensated for the misaligned tubes by liberally using pipe joint compound on every connection.

photo 1

This (photo 2) is how the whole setup originally looked. The dishwasher drain hose is hooked up to the right sink tailpiece. The waste arm, from the right to the left sink, is not horizontally level. Is this acceptable? Every plumbing forum I've read mentions that the waste arm should be level.

photo2

I replaced the left sink strainer's rubber and fiber washers (and all the other washers) and aligned all the tubes. As expected, aligning everything (left sink) downwards from the strainer to the P trap resulted in the trap arm not lining up with the wall drain outlet (photo 3). Here's a close up of the trap arm end and the wall drain outlet (photo 4). I can't figure out what to do. There's no way to push things (slip nuts, tees, P trap) further up. The adapter-wall drain outlet pipe seems to be too high for our sink. It's a Blanco sink that's deeper than many home kitchen sinks I've seen.

photo 3

photo 4

Help please! Any suggestions? I was wondering if there's a tube (metal because all our plumbing is brass?) with a bend that can be attached to the wall drain outlet pipe adapter. That would have to be a double bend wouldn't it - 1 downward bend + 1 horizontal bend - for the tube to meet with the trap arm.

I have an additional question. Are there reasons for choosing which washers to go with for the slip nuts - rubber or polyethylene? The reason I'm asking is my local hardware only has poly washers (tailpiece and cone). When I removed the slip nuts, they all had rubber washers with beveled (lies against the inside of the nut) and flat sides (outward, side that meets the pipe). Should I be replacing them with rubber washers or can I replace them with poly cone washers?

**TheEplumber** · 10-09-2011, 09:00 AM

A couple of quick thoughts-
Look for basket strainers with a shorter profile. You might gain a little that way. Also consider eliminating the cont. waste and using 2 traps instead. You will have to add a wye at the wall to receive the new traps.

Mark Potter · 10-09-2011, 11:10 AM

Oh boy why is there a electrical outlet there by the trap?!? Lol
And why is the sink so far down to the p-trap as well?...

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Mark Potter · 10-09-2011, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Potter

Oh boy why is there a electrical outlet there by the trap?!? Lol
And why is the sink so far down to the p-trap as well?...

H|P Capital

The drain outlet needs to be below your shut offs
put a GFI in replace of the none GFI outlet.

H|P Capital

Druidia · 10-09-2011, 12:39 PM

@Eplumber:
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely look for one. I was initially thinking of trying to find a shorter tee (even a PVC or ABS) since there seems to be a bit more of space I can save on that but finding a shorter profile strainer seems to be easier.

@MarkPotter:
Wow, the things I discover when I let others look in. Thanks. I never even knew that. I assumed things were ok (wrong) because I assumed (wrong again, plumbing had to be one of the things inspected and approved before a condo unit can be sold.

The electrical outlet is there because the developer had a water heater installed (on the left of the elec outlet) for the mini-faucet on the sink. We don't even use that filtered hot water faucet anymore because the water coming out has a funny (not stinky, more sweet vanilla-like) smell even after we changed the hot water filter (on the right of the right sink).

Changing to a GFI outlet would be easy. Changing the positions of the drain outlet and the shut off valves is not so easy. So having the drain outlet higher than the shutoff valves is not up to code? I guess I'll have to get a plumber in after all to lower the drain outlet (that seems less work than raising the shutoff valves/water supply pipes). I'll do a temporary fix (to the immediate strainer leak problem) by installing a shorter profile strainer then think/go about the drain outlet-higher-than-the shutoff valves issue slowly/longer because that requires getting board approval and a "professional" to mess with things behind the wall. Condo unit owners/residents are not allowed to do anything beyond the wall.

Mark Potter · 10-09-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Druidia

@Eplumber:
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely look for one. I was initially thinking of trying to find a shorter tee (even a PVC or ABS) since there seems to be a bit more of space I can save on that but finding a shorter profile strainer seems to be easier.

@MarkPotter:
Wow, the things I discover when I let others look in. Thanks. I never even knew that. I assumed things were ok (wrong) because I assumed (wrong again, plumbing had to be one of the things inspected and approved before a condo unit can be sold.

The electrical outlet is there because the developer had a water heater installed (on the left of the elec outlet) for the mini-faucet on the sink. We don't even use that filtered hot water faucet anymore because the water coming out has a funny (not stinky, more sweet vanilla-like) smell even after we changed the hot water filter (on the right of the right sink).

Changing to a GFI outlet would be easy. Changing the positions of the drain outlet and the shut off valves is not so easy. So having the drain outlet higher than the shutoff valves is not up to code? I guess I'll have to get a plumber in after all to lower the drain outlet (that seems less work than raising the shutoff valves/water supply pipes). I'll do a temporary fix (to the immediate strainer leak problem) by installing a shorter profile strainer then think/go about the drain outlet-higher-than-the shutoff valves issue slowly/longer because that requires getting board approval and a "professional" to mess with things behind the wall. Condo unit owners/residents are not allowed to do anything beyond the wall.

Yeah I don't know what is code for were u live but drain outlet should be lower regardless and the GFI should have been put in that is code regardless.

The drain is what it is but change the electrical outlet.

H|P Capital

AlbacoreShuffle · 10-09-2011, 01:20 PM

Screw a 1 1/2 " tee on the pipe coming out of the wall.
On the left side screw on a 90 degree turn then a short 1 1/2 " nipple on to the 90.
On the right side of the tee install a 45 degree turn, then a short nipple.

Run each side of the sink to the new connections with their own individual p-traps.

rjniles · 10-09-2011, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbacoreShuffle

Screw a 1 1/2 " tee on the pipe coming out of the wall.
On the left side screw on a 90 degree turn then a short 1 1/2 " nipple on to the 90.
On the right side of the tee install a 45 degree turn, then a short nipple.

Run each side of the sink to the new connections with their own individual p-traps.

Use a wye instead of a tee

AlbacoreShuffle · 10-09-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjniles

Use a wye instead of a tee

Good idea, that would be MO better.

Mark Potter · 10-09-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbacoreShuffle

Screw a 1 1/2 " tee on the pipe coming out of the wall.
On the left side screw on a 90 degree turn then a short 1 1/2 " nipple on to the 90.
On the right side of the tee install a 45 degree turn, then a short nipple.

Run each side of the sink to the new connections with their own individual p-traps.

Isn't the 90 going to drop it down from the wall if he does that? It needs to be plum all the way to the main drain from once the P-trap comes back up and goes to the wall?

H|P Capital

AlbacoreShuffle · 10-09-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Potter

Isn't the 90 going to drop it down from the wall if he does that? It needs to be plum all the way to the main drain from once the P-trap comes back up and goes to the wall?

H|P Capital

The 90 would be installed in a horizonal position with a nipple sticking out , so the trap arm could be attached.

Druidia · 10-09-2011, 04:03 PM

I'm a she.

The 2-P trap setup you guys are suggesting would look something like the photo at the bottom here - http://www.polaris.net/palmk/GDplumbing.html (minus the garbage disposal and the bendy drain on the right)?

Mark Potter · 10-09-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Druidia

I'm a she.

The 2-P trap setup you guys are suggesting would look something like the photo at the bottom here - http://www.polaris.net/palmk/GDplumbing.html (minus the garbage disposal and the bendy drain on the right)?

I apologize for that wasn't paying attention to your name.
Isn't that what you have now?
And what there suggesting which is right but it's just making the p-trap on the other side?....

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AlbacoreShuffle · 10-09-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Druidia

I'm a she.

The 2-P trap setup you guys are suggesting would look something like the photo at the bottom here - http://www.polaris.net/palmk/GDplumbing.html (minus the garbage disposal and the bendy drain on the right)?

No.
It would look more like this.

Mark Potter · 10-09-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbacoreShuffle

No.
It would look more like this.

Thank you! Now that makes total sense to separate the 2 sinks like that sorry Sunday's are slow days for me lol

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