Installing a utility sink

secutanudu · 12-13-2010, 10:52 AM

I am planning to install a utility sink in my parents' basement. There is no plumbing there. Well, there are drain and supply lines overhead, but this will be the first fixture in the basement.

The supply lines are simple enough, just branching off the hot and cold.

I am not sure how to approach the drains. I saw this pump on the HD website that says it does not need connection to the vent stack. Is this legal/acceptable? Does it have a built-in AAV or something? My main concern was how to vent this new sink.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

LateralConcepts · 12-13-2010, 11:05 AM

The Liberty 404 is a much better pump. A quick Google search revealed cheaper too. Still needs to be vented.
http://www.libertypumps.com/Products...?p=19&s=8&c=15

secutanudu · 12-13-2010, 11:14 AM

How is it the one at HD does not need to be vented? Or is that guideline wrong?

LateralConcepts · 12-13-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secutanudu

How is it the one at HD does not need to be vented? Or is that guideline wrong?

All fixtures need to be vented. AAV's are not recommended or acceptable in most cases by the AHJ (inspector).

Your HD model is just a pump. The Liberty I mentioned is an entire system with basin included. I've installed a few of them. Super simple! You mentioned there are drains overhead. I'm guessing there's a vent somewhere that you can tie into pretty easily.

michaelcherr · 12-13-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateralConcepts

All fixtures need to be vented. AAV's are not recommended or acceptable in most cases by the AHJ (inspector).

I disagree. Inspectors vary by location, but I've never heard of any inspector flat out dis-allowing AAV's.

That being said I'd reccomend against an aav in this situation. It's a basement, I bet you have good enough stack acess to get it vented properly.

LateralConcepts · 12-13-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

I disagree. Inspectors vary by location, but I've never heard of any inspector flat out dis-allowing AAV's.

You're right. That's why I said they're not recommended or acceptable in most cases by the AHJ

michaelcherr · 12-13-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateralConcepts

You're right. That's why I said they're not recommended or acceptable in most cases by the AHJ

Not acceptable means they won't allow it.
I am saying you are wrong and inspectors will allow it.
It sounds like you are agreeing with me too, which just means you mis-stated your thoughts.

secutanudu · 12-24-2010, 10:52 AM

I am not doubting your knowlewdge, but I am still wondering why the HD pump I linked says this.

"No connection to main-stack vent required"

There IS a bathroom above where this sink will go. I assume a toilet is vented below the floor, so it should be accessible to tie into from the basement, right?

Thanks.

braindead · 12-24-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secutanudu

I am not doubting your knowlewdge, but I am still wondering why the HD pump I linked says this.

"No connection to main-stack vent required"

There IS a bathroom above where this sink will go. I assume a toilet is vented below the floor, so it should be accessible to tie into from the basement, right?

Thanks.

The manufactor decides if the pump needs a vent they are not all the same, some only require a 1/2 inch line hung over a laundry trap.

>>>There IS a bathroom above where this sink will go. I assume a toilet is vented below the floor, so it should be accessible to tie into from the basement, right?<<<

No, you can't tie a vent in downward, a tie in must be 6in. above the highest fixture connected.

secutanudu · 12-25-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead

No, you can't tie a vent in downward, a tie in must be 6in. above the highest fixture connected.

Not really sure what this means...

I finally was able to get a look at the basement ceiling. I don't see any obvious vent pipes. The house was built in 1974, if that matters. This is the best guess as to what is going on from what I can see in the basement. I see no obvious vent pipes, the part of the picture in the circle is my best guess as to what's going on.

Assuming my drawing is correct, can I tie in to A or B for my utility sink drain? If so, it'd already be vented, right?

Thanks.

**TheEplumber** · 12-25-2010, 05:42 PM

You ccan tie in the drain at B but you still need a vent for the pump. If your pump says it has its own vent, get the spec. sht and show it to your inspecter and argue your case. If you need to vent it, tie it in 6" above the flood rim of the lav.

secutanudu · 12-25-2010, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEplumber

If you need to vent it, tie it in 6" above the flood rim of the lav.

Thanks for the reponse. Can you explain this a little more detailed? Not really sure where I'd be tying it in...this will be the first time i've ever done any drain piping. Thanks.

secutanudu · 12-26-2010, 11:53 AM

I am realizing you said i need a drain for the pump...not the fixture. I assume, based on the assumption that my drawing is accurate, the fixture itself would be vented properly with a simple drain tie-in at either A or B (right?).

The pump linked above (the liberty 404) has three openings....One discharge, and two others for inlet and vent (either can be inlet or vent).

This is what it says in the Liberty document...almost makes the venting sound optional. This sink will not have high suds, no washer will drain into it.

Quote:

INLET: The pump has two ports: one on the top the other on the side, either can be used as a vent or inlet. Using the appropriate piping (1-1/2” on the model 404 and 2” on models 405, 405HV) connect the fixture to the pump. Note: a trap shall be used between the fixture and pump, a flange type is recommended. HAND-TIGHTEN TO PUMP. DO NOT OVER-TIGHTEN OR CROSSTHREAD.

VENT: Provision is made for a vent stack to allow extra volume for high suds conditions, and to allow proper drainage of the fixture. HAND TIGHTEN ONLY. DO NOT CAP-OFF VENT, venting methods (ONE-WAY QUICK-VENTS) must comply with local and national codes One way quick vents should not be threaded into this product directly. Follow manufactures installation instructions. The vent pipe should have a union to facilitate removal if required and be connected to the building or house vent.

NHMaster · 12-26-2010, 12:03 PM

The tank needs a vent or it becomes air bound and will not let the sink drain properly. You can't use an AAV because they are an air admittance valve (they let air in, not out)

secutanudu · 12-26-2010, 12:17 PM

So does that vent (the one for the pump) need to be into my stack, or can that vent right into the basement? Are sewer gases running through this or just clean air?

If I do need to go to the stack, can I do it this way? Obviously, these pipes would not go straight up into the existing drain, they would go up above and be pitched down into the existing pipe. Hard to draw it in 3d in MS Paint.