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Old 02-22-2012, 12:39 PM   #1
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


I have a bit of an issue. It appears that ever 3-4 years my city gets hit with a "500 year storm" and it overloads the sewer system in the neighborhood. when this happens it backs up into the homes in the area. From what I'm told, my neighbor gets about 4 feet of raw sewage, I get 3-3.5 feet.

While an indoor pool would be nice, using raw sewage for it doesn't thrill me. So I need a cost effective manner to solve this. I'm currently unemployed so major work isn't an option. The house was built in 1920, so the sewer line is probably clay in the front yard and most likely trashed by now. The future plan is to tear up my yard and have the sewer line replaced with a checkvalve or whatnot installed.

As a cheap temporary fix I am looking to install a standpipe to take it to ground level. I will need to run my furnace and washer into the standpipe for drainage. I also figure I should have a cleanout on it. The only issue beyond all that is some manner of allowing drainage if needed. From what I know, the house doesn't flood from run off. We had record rain last year and had no water I saw in the basement. Regardless though, having no drain sounds like a bad idea.

The drain is 5 inches internal. This is the first major issue, 4 inches is an easy fix. It appears to be Iron and is flush with the concrete. Chiseling away around it may be possible, I'm not sure.

The two possible solutions I see are chisel the concrete around the pipe so I have a lip to slap a gasket around. I'm unsure if this is possible, I'd need to go down at least an inch/inch and half so I could get the clamp on it and tighten it up. I'd prefer an internal solution if possible.

The other solution is to get a donut I guess they are called, fit it around a piece of 4 inch, and bang the sucker in there, possibly even concrete it around the top.

The advantage to the internal solution is perhaps I can locate a T that I can essentially use as a drain (fit the T junction at the floor.)

Any Ideas? A common theme is that this is the city's issue, the city should solve it is true in my opinion, but my neighbor has been fighting them since the 70s when they had their first flood. This happens to about half the block and about 5 blocks worth of houses get hit when this happens. Each house further from the sewer causing it naturally gets less flooding. Figure around 100ish properties or more.

Also a sump is not an option, again money first off, but the neighbor 2 doors down has one, and when these storms hit, it overwhelms their sump. As I'm downstream from them, it would most likely kill mine.


I know little about plumbing overall so talk to me like I'm an idiot. =)

This is the only drain in the basement, there are 2 pipes that run into the concrete, 1 large 4 inch? that comes from the bathroom, and one smaller from the kitchen sink, both have been replaced with pvc. The large bathroom one has a rubber gasket on it where I assume 2 pipes are connected.

The vent stack? is above the bathroom.

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Old 02-22-2012, 02:17 PM   #2
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


I really couldn't wrap my head around your post. Maybe a picture would help. The only solution I'll recommend right now is to install a back water valve on the building drain.

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Old 02-22-2012, 05:35 PM   #3
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


Lol. I probably didn't make much sense. Also it appears I've been doing things wrong, like my washing machine drain. I also tend to overthink things, and in an effort to provide as much information as possible, give too much and confuse the issue.

Ok, I have a drain in the floor of the basement. It's 5 inches internal. During "flash flood" conditions, it backs up and I'm told we get sewage water backing up into the basement, about 3 feet of it. From the way the neighbors talk this is sewage, not rainwater.

I need to fix that. A standpipe seems to be the easiest solution, but I have 3 issues with a permanent standpipe: 1. Washing Machine drains directly into it. 2. The furnace/air conditioner drains into it. 3. It's the drain for the basement in case my basement floods otherwise (broken pipe, poor rainwater drainage, whatever.)

In my original post, I was over thinking things it appears. =)




In theory there's a picture above this (ganking facebook photo storage, let me know if it doesn't show up)

That's the drain, the biggest issue is that its 5 inches internal dimension and flush with the concrete. I need to somehow prevent it from turning into a fountain during heavy rain while still allowing things to go down it.

Ignoring my earlier drivel, I believe the easiest method will be to take a 8-9 inch long piece of 4 inch PVC, slap a donut on it and sink it into the iron pipe till it's level or maybe a tad below the floor. I'll score the iron pipe a bit as well as the pvc and fill that area in with concrete (the 1/2 inch between the pvc and iron pipe.)



Does that make sense? In my head it does, but my head is a scary place.

That should give me, essentially a 4 inch pvc drain hole. At which point I can use a "flood guard" deally http://www.drainbrain.com/specialties/floodguard.html

Either the float model or the standpipe, though I'd have to screw the standpipe in when I was expecting rain, that option may not work as I'm told this basically happens in 5 minutes or less. Oh look a flood, boom your basement is a swimming pool. So I'm considering the float, I'm just not sure if it's gonna withstand or not.

If I'm confusing the topic, just post and tell me to shut up lol.

Short and to the point, I have a five inch drain that I need water to go into but not come back out of. Tearing up the front yard to put in a backflow or other one way trap isn't a possibility currently.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:38 PM   #4
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


The reason for adding the concrete is I'm afraid that otherwise the rubber donut won't withstand the pressure and it will just shoot out when water backs up.

Problem is, I don't know how good concrete will adhere to iron/pvc.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:44 PM   #5
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


I've used 2" and 1.5" flow guards with good success. But haven't had to hold back a city sewer system.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:13 PM   #6
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


More info separately in case needed:




It's not a bell housing etc, that's a straight piece of 5 inch internal, I assume Iron, pipe. It goes down 9 inches or so and there appears to be a seam (this worries me.) About inch below that is a pipe, about 4 or 5 inch wide running into this. What confuses me about this pipe is that the angle its on has it headed away from my house on a diagonal and it's not the lowest point. I stuck a stick in and it goes to about 20 inches down. There is standing liquid (that smells rank when you stick something in it) from that pipe leading in, on down, so about 10 inches of water.

Reminder, I know very little about plumbing.

Hopefully this doesn't confuse things more.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:16 PM   #7
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


Lol. Only a few blocks of the city's sewer, not the entire supply. Surely that little rubber ball can handle that right?

Any other ideas for potential solutions?
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #8
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


how about instead of digging up yard just break out a little concrete inside the house and add one of these before floor drain
http://www.backwater-valves.com/

or do your idea cut 4 inch pvc about 4 inches above ground with a female npt fitting (clean out fitting) install float model inside of pipe tighten screws that holds float in place then screw a pvc npt pipefitting into cleanout fitting and then you have a stand pipe with a float and is removable if ever needed to replace
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Last edited by jaydevries; 02-22-2012 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:21 PM   #9
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


also using you donut idea to seal existing to pvc
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:42 PM   #10
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


Thanks for the advice so far in case I forget to say so later.

The 2 major problems with anything protruding from the ground are: 1. My furnace drain is only about 8 inches from the ground, granted the floor where the furnace is is higher than drain, but I have little wiggle room as far as where that would need to drain. 2. Raising above ground negates it as a floor drain in the event of a flood.

Also, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to make sure all bases are covered and I do this right.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:51 PM   #11
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


that is why a gave my first suggestion
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:20 PM   #12
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


Will the donut/concrete Idea work? I have no idea what kind of pressure I'm dealing with. I don't think the donut alone will.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:23 PM   #13
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


do not know let me know what happens
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:32 AM   #14
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


Finished.



Donut worked but I had to trim the ribs off the outside so it would fit. Tested it for leaks and held water. Used Hydraulic water sealant cement to top if off. Tested it again once it was dry and no leaks I could see. Then I just used the flood guard standpipe model and built off that.

The only problem I had was a check valve for the furnace, most are spring based and they need some pressure to open, obviously the furnace draining doesn't provide that so I had to use a swing door valve. I'm gonna keep looking for a better solution. That's why I put the clear tubing on either side, I can see if the water is draining or backing up. I'm also going to install a valve, then in case I do catch it during a back up, I can just hit the valve.

Ended up using a laundry tub as the standpipe. For the moment it's on cinderblocks which takes it to 42 inches but I picked up some 2x2s and I'm going to bolt those into the legs so I can lose the cinder and raise it another 2-3 inches. Neighbor said the most mine had ever got was 3-3.5 feet, so I figure 45 inches should be safe.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:22 AM   #15
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Installing a standpipe into the basement drain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradiselost View Post
The house was built in 1920, so the sewer line is probably clay in the front yard and most likely trashed by now.
If the above is true, What you have essentially done is stop the water from entering the basement but it will definitely seek the path of least resistance which now are any cracks/gaps in the clay drain. The could lead to soil around the clay pipe being washed away which leads to the clay tile collapsing more.

So yes you have stopped nasty sewer water from entering your home which is a great benefit and something I do not wish on anyone, but you may have created another problem. It is up to you to weigh the pros and cons and a main sewer line replacement may need to be in the near future.

Anyway the trap on the laundry tub serves no purpose but is not hurting. Repost back when neighborhood sewers back up and let us know if your flood guard stayed put and held back the city pressure.

Hopefully it will never need to be tested.


Last edited by hammerlane; 03-18-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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