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Old 03-02-2009, 05:52 PM   #1
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


Hello, I am looking for some advice. I want to install a New Bathroom in my basment. I am very handy. I can frame, tile, hang drywall, electrical, etc. However I have never handled a plumbing job.

I recently received a $5,350 quote to install a shower, toliet, sink, replace existing ejector pump, etc... The quote does not include any framing. The rough plumbing was installed when I had the house built.

Sticking out of the concrete slab there is 2 PVC pipes, 1 PVC pipe for the toliet, and an area marked for the shower drain. I assume it is under the concrete slab.

How difficult is it to tap into existing hot/cold water copper pipes, tap into existing PVC vent pipes, install a pea trap, and replace an existing ejector pump?

I requested for quote to be itemized. $1,000 to replace existing ejector pump. $950 to trim bathroom -- install toliet, sink, shower head. $3,100 to install cooper and pvc pipe for sink, bath, shower. $200 for shower value.

Does anyone have a "How to?" or tell me how to do this work myself?

I would greatly appreciate your help.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:22 PM   #2
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


We can guide you through all of this. First be careful how you post your questions and be as complete with the details as possible. IE: 1" pvc for the toilet. You need 3". To start look into renting or borrowing a crimping tool for run all the plumbing in PEX. Plan on buy a good ejector pump online, not a cheap box store item. You will get some contradicting opinions on where to place the check valve and such, but just do not panic and plan on spending a lot of time to properly reseach what needs to be done. Attach pictures of what you have now. Many are here to help and you should be using your new bath soon.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:51 PM   #3
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


This is exactly the reason I came to this site, and someone posted my same question too.

3100 seems steep for a bit of copper pipe and a few solders. And you are ahead of the game with the plumbing in the concrete already.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:26 AM   #4
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


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Originally Posted by Bob Mariani View Post
We can guide you through all of this. First be careful how you post your questions and be as complete with the details as possible. IE: 1" pvc for the toilet. You need 3". To start look into renting or borrowing a crimping tool for run all the plumbing in PEX. Plan on buy a good ejector pump online, not a cheap box store item. You will get some contradicting opinions on where to place the check valve and such, but just do not panic and plan on spending a lot of time to properly reseach what needs to be done. Attach pictures of what you have now. Many are here to help and you should be using your new bath soon.
Bob,
Thank you for your comment. Here is the information I can share with you today. I have taken a few pictures of the rough-in, location of ejector pump, hot/cold water copper pipes, and vent. As you can see, I haave not begun the framing for the bathroom yet. I assume I will have to break up the concrete flooring for the shower drain.

There are (2) 2 1/2" PVC pipes sticking out of the ground (I measured the PVC pipes with the end caps on. I could not pull them off to measure. They might be 2".

There is (1) 5" PVC pipe sticking out of the ground for the toliet. Once again, I measured the pipe with the end cap on.

The 5" PVC pipe is exactly 14" off the concrete wall. I measured from the wall to the beginning of the PVC pipe -- not to the center of the pipe.

I took pictures of the basement ceiling to show where the pipes are located to tap for hot and cold water, plus venting.

File 0002 are the pvc pipes sticking out of the ground.
File 0003are the pvc pipes sticking out of the ground plus the drain location on the right. I assume I will have to break up the concrete to get to the drain pipe.
File 0004 are an ariel view of the same pipes to illustrate how far the pipes are from the wall.
File 0006 is a copper cold water pipe attached to the basement ceiling right next to the location of the bathroom. I assume I can tap into it access the cold water
File 0007 is a vent pipe that I might be able to tap into just behind the location of where the bathroom wall will be erected.
File 0008 is an upstairs bathroom about 8 feet from where the bathroom wall will be. I assume I can tap into the hot water pipe to run to my new bathroom
File 0009 is a picture of the ejector pump location. Notice the orange lines on the floor. They outline the wall location.

I hope this helps. Where do I begin?

How difficult is it to replace the ejector pump and seal the lid from oder?

Thank you for your help.
--jeff
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:28 AM   #5
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


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Originally Posted by Bob Mariani View Post
We can guide you through all of this. First be careful how you post your questions and be as complete with the details as possible. IE: 1" pvc for the toilet. You need 3". To start look into renting or borrowing a crimping tool for run all the plumbing in PEX. Plan on buy a good ejector pump online, not a cheap box store item. You will get some contradicting opinions on where to place the check valve and such, but just do not panic and plan on spending a lot of time to properly reseach what needs to be done. Attach pictures of what you have now. Many are here to help and you should be using your new bath soon.
Bob,

Here are the rest of the pictures. I did not know that you can only upload a max of 6 pics.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:42 AM   #6
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


ejector pump: This should have a cover that is bolted. Just remove the bolts. If there is caulking around the edge remove it. Looks like the PVC is glued and there are no unions or fernco couplings. I would cut both lines about 12" above grade. You can reconnect later with fernco couplings. These are rubber fittings that are fastened with hose straps. From the picture I cannot see if you have a check valve. If not plan on adding one to the vertical section of the 2" PVC drain about 12" from the ceiling. Now you can just pull the old ejector out and install a new one. Why do you need a new one? Later be sure to seal the pit to avoid any gasses from escaping. (radon)

In the bath:
you are dealing with 2" pvc and 4" PVC for the toilet. You will need to establish finish floor heights and wall lines prior to cutting any of these stubs. I am concerned about the 14" distance for the toilet. The wall should be spaced off the concrete and you still need 12" to this pipe. 1/2" space + 4" wall + 12" distance to center of toilet outlet. = 16 1/2" to center of this pipe.

Questions.
what do you plan to use for flooring?
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:01 AM   #7
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


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Originally Posted by Bob Mariani View Post
ejector pump: This should have a cover that is bolted. Just remove the bolts. If there is caulking around the edge remove it. Looks like the PVC is glued and there are no unions or fernco couplings. I would cut both lines about 12" above grade. You can reconnect later with fernco couplings. These are rubber fittings that are fastened with hose straps. From the picture I cannot see if you have a check valve. If not plan on adding one to the vertical section of the 2" PVC drain about 12" from the ceiling. Now you can just pull the old ejector out and install a new one. Why do you need a new one? Later be sure to seal the pit to avoid any gasses from escaping. (radon)

In the bath:
you are dealing with 2" pvc and 4" PVC for the toilet. You will need to establish finish floor heights and wall lines prior to cutting any of these stubs. I am concerned about the 14" distance for the toilet. The wall should be spaced off the concrete and you still need 12" to this pipe. 1/2" space + 4" wall + 12" distance to center of toilet outlet. = 16 1/2" to center of this pipe.

Questions.
what do you plan to use for flooring?
I'm a little confused right here:
Looks like the PVC is glued and there are no unions or fernco couplings. I would cut both lines about 12" above grade. You can reconnect later with fernco couplings. These are rubber fittings that are fastened with hose straps. From the picture I cannot see if you have a check valve.

There is a Red on/off value on the left side of the ejector pvc piping. Is this the "Check Value" you are referring to? If this is the value, do I have to do what you outlined above?

"Why do you need a new one?" The orginal one has a short. My circuit breaker keeps going off. I unplugged the pump and the breaker never tripped again. What brand of ejector pump do you recommend?

"I am concerned about the 14" distance for the toilet." Do you want me to re-measure to the exact center of the 4" PVC for the toliet to be exact?

"What do you plan to use for flooring? I was planning on using tile for the floor.

--jeff
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:56 AM   #8
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


Yes, just cut the PVC to be able to free the plumbing lines from the tank. You will later move the lower parts of this pvc to connect to the new pump.

The item with the red handle is a shut off, not a check valve. these are used to prevent the material pumped up from returning back into the tank, which would cause the tank to continue cycling. A check valve looks like this...
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:04 AM   #9
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the distance to the 4" line we can deal with. A good ejector can be found from Zoeller or Hydromatic. Are you considering under floor heat... very much advised for tile. hate those cold tiles.

Fernco couplings.. do you know what I mean here? What are you confused about?
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Old 03-04-2009, 01:58 PM   #10
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


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the distance to the 4" line we can deal with. A good ejector can be found from Zoeller or Hydromatic. Are you considering under floor heat... very much advised for tile. hate those cold tiles.

Fernco couplings.. do you know what I mean here? What are you confused about?
OK. The ejector pump has been installed. I purchased the check value, couplers, and in the installation was easier than I thought. First part of the project is completed.

Now onto the venting of sink and toliet.
Question #1) Is one of the vent pipes for the shower and the other for the sink?

Question #2) Can I use an offset flange for the toliet to gain a few more inches?


Question #3) Do I run hot/cold water using 3/4" cooper horizontal to each location then use 1/2 to the fixture? What about shock absorbers?

Question #4) Once I frame the bathroom, How should I deal with the limited space for the toliet. Do I How would I frame around the vent pipes? Do I just notch the treated 2x4 large enough for the vent pipes to fix within the 2x4?

Question #5) Can I tap into any water source?

Thank you,
--jeff
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:08 PM   #11
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


1) Yes

2) Yes, if you need to. Layout the lines for the wall. Add for the drywall finish and see what you have left.

3) Seems like you already have 3/4" lines above the bath. Tap into these with 1/2" lines to each fixture. Not sure if you will need shock absorbers for this installation. Just do not nail the straps too tightly, which will cause noise when the hot water pipe expands and contracts.

4) if space is very limited use 2X3 wall studs Notch the studs if you have to, but much better to drill the hole in the middle. If notched use a steel strap to reinforce the framing member

5) Yes, an water.. hot to hot....
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:24 AM   #12
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


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Originally Posted by Jeffrey262 View Post
Hello, I am looking for some advice. I want to install a New Bathroom in my basment. I am very handy. I can frame, tile, hang drywall, electrical, etc. However I have never handled a plumbing job.

I recently received a $5,350 quote to install a shower, toliet, sink, replace existing ejector pump, etc... The quote does not include any framing. The rough plumbing was installed when I had the house built.

Sticking out of the concrete slab there is 2 PVC pipes, 1 PVC pipe for the toliet, and an area marked for the shower drain. I assume it is under the concrete slab.

How difficult is it to tap into existing hot/cold water copper pipes, tap into existing PVC vent pipes, install a pea trap, and replace an existing ejector pump?

I requested for quote to be itemized. $1,000 to replace existing ejector pump. $950 to trim bathroom -- install toliet, sink, shower head. $3,100 to install cooper and pvc pipe for sink, bath, shower. $200 for shower value.

Does anyone have a "How to?" or tell me how to do this work myself?

I would greatly appreciate your help.

Hi, Hope this helps!


Choose the location of your basement bathroom carefully. If at all possible, plan to build it directly under another bathroom in your home so that it will be near the sewer lines. This can save you money, because you'll need to buy less material. It also prevents future problems with getting the correct elevation and rise for your piping.

Layout the room. Sketch the floor plan on paper first to work out logistics, then snap chalk lines to the floor to indicate where your walls will be built.

Build your walls using wood or metal studs and drywall. Use moisture-proof drywall to accommodate for the moisture associated with bathrooms and general basement dampness.

Purchase your plumbing fixtures. You'll need a sink, a toilet and a shower or bathtub if desired. Be sure to select fixtures that will fit within your available space.

Select an upflush toilet or a sewage ejector system if your bathroom will be below the level of your sewage pipes. This is the only way to get wastewater up and out of the basement.

Install your new fixtures and run all associated piping.

Hire a plumber to come to your home and make all final connections. In many areas, this is required by code. Even if it is not required in your area, it is often a wise choice so that you don't end up with a flooded basement. If you've already installed your fixtures and run the piping, it will be quick and inexpensive to hire a plumber for final connections.

Lay floor tile, paint your walls and apply any other desired finishes. Add towels and decorations to give your bathroom a cozy practical style.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:27 AM   #13
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


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Hi, Hope this helps!
If you actually read the post before doing a cut and paste you'd have seen that his bath is already roughed in and he sure doesn't need an upflush or ejector. And he already looked at hiring a plumber for the final install and doesn't want to go that way.
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:34 PM   #14
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


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1) Yes

2) Yes, if you need to. Layout the lines for the wall. Add for the drywall finish and see what you have left.

3) Seems like you already have 3/4" lines above the bath. Tap into these with 1/2" lines to each fixture. Not sure if you will need shock absorbers for this installation. Just do not nail the straps too tightly, which will cause noise when the hot water pipe expands and contracts.

4) if space is very limited use 2X3 wall studs Notch the studs if you have to, but much better to drill the hole in the middle. If notched use a steel strap to reinforce the framing member

5) Yes, an water.. hot to hot....
OK Bob,

Here is what I have done today. I broke up the concrete and installed the pea trap for the shower. See picture. Tell me if you see anything strange.

I also installed, but not secured, the treated 2x4. See picture. I looked for 2x3's but could not find any. I drilled for the vent pipes. Tell me if you think I will have a problem with the inspection. I also measure, once again, the distance from the 2x4 to the toliet. It is exact 12" away from the 2x4. I forgot to subtract 1/2" for drywall. I mentioned using an offset flange. If I use it, do I have to break apart the concrete to install it?

I will be installing tile for the floor. What type of underlayment should I install -- 3/4" plywood?

After your recommendations, I will finish the framing of the bathroom.

Thank you,
--jeff
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Last edited by Jeffrey262; 03-05-2009 at 06:39 PM. Reason: forgot pictures
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Old 03-05-2009, 06:55 PM   #15
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Installing a New Bathroom in my basement


I am assuming these fittings are not yet glued. Be sure to use primer and the right glue. The inspector will want to see the purple primer past these joints.

Is this pipe on an exterior wall?

You need steel notch plates from the plumbing department where the pipes go through the studs. This is so no errant nailing penetrates the pipes.

yes you need to break out the concrete a little to handle the offset, that is if the finished floor is not coming up much.

How is the rest of the flooring being handled? You may want to make the two floors close to the same height.

No, 3/4 plywood cannot be placed directly on concrete. Remember.. no wood to concrete is allowed unless treated... same rule applies here. If tiling you only need to add tile to the concrete.
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