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Old 12-14-2012, 09:08 AM   #1
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


We are getting a new water supply, and I'm bringing 1" copper through the wall of the basement. My question is: do I just patch the hole w cement patch right around the pipe, or do I sleeve the pipe and caulk? Do I wrap the pipe in plastic first? One plumber I got an estimate from said that pipe going bare through the block wall, with cement patch could get eaten away over a long period. He was referring to re-using the 50 year old existing pipe.

Also, once the above is settled, do I use anything on the outside, such as black roofing 'gook' ?

Thanks for your help.

Paul

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Old 12-14-2012, 09:36 AM   #2
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Must be sleeved, or instead use Pex, and he's right there's thousands of home that years ago where run with copper in direct contact with concrete that had to be redone.
It's rare to even see copper used outside any more as a supply, it burst when it freezes, and the cost has gone though the room.

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Old 12-14-2012, 10:26 AM   #3
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Thanks for the answer joecaption. Any suggestions on what to use as caulking between sleeve and pipe?
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:30 AM   #4
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Sleeve anything you put through a wall better safe than sorry, foam or latex chalking to seal gap.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:34 AM   #5
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Put in a Galvanized steel sleeve that is at least 1 inch ID bigger than the pipe. Center pipe. Grout sleeve with epoxy cement. stuff fiberglass in the void, and caulk with Neutral cure Silicone sealant, tool concave with spatula. Caulk both sides, and not too thick. If you have foam pipe insulation you can use that instead of FG. The foam in a can is acidic, will absorb moisture, and is not resistant to UV. Neutral Cure Silicone is resistant to UV, wont absorb water, and is not acidic

Last edited by jagans; 12-14-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:56 AM   #6
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Jagans has offered one option. I have seen PVC used as a sleeve, with polyurethane foam or Great Stuff (TM) used to fill the void. I don't believe copper pipe is reactive with most foams. I have several copper pipes in my house done using PVC sleeve plus filler through an 8 inch thick concrete wall for outdoor spigots, they are more than 50 years old and do not seem to have sustained any damage. The filler used 50 years ago was likely very different than current foams in chemical composition, if they even used foam in 1959, hard to tell from the appearance exactly what was used, but the PVC sleeve looks perfect.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:58 AM   #7
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Thanks for all the quick, and through, responses.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:01 PM   #8
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Never use steel as a sleeve. It reacts with the concrete and the copper tubing.
Foam will have no effect on the PVC
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:04 PM   #9
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Really? They have been used on commercial buildings for ever. Ive used for 35 years. Rust? yes, but there is enough meat on sched 40 to go forever, and the thermal coefficient of expansion of steel is close to concrete. What about concrete encased steel beams? or Sewer Pipes? Foam really goes away in sunlight pretty quick, and it does suck up water.
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:12 PM   #10
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
Really? They have been used on commercial buildings for ever. Ive used for 35 years. Rust? yes, but there is enough meat on sched 40 to go forever, and the thermal coefficient of expansion of steel is close to concrete. What about concrete encased steel beams? or Sewer Pipes? Foam really goes away in sunlight pretty quick, and it does suck up water.
I have to agree, I've been involved with corp of engineer projects- their specs always wanted steel sleeves or other approved method.
When I pass thru concrete- whether cored or sleeved I try to wrap the pipe with 10 mill tape- A little added protection
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #11
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Anytime to differant metals make contact there will be electrolis.
Why do you use a dielectric nipple when connecting to a water heater?
Why take the chance, use PVC and there's 0 chance of any reaction.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:19 PM   #12
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


to each his own no sense in debating this....it will work either way as long as its sleeved with something the homeowner gets the point....thanks guys....ben sr
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:24 AM   #13
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Thanks again for all the help. I'll probably go with what I have laying around, PVC and fiberglass, and I'll get some neutral cure silicone & epoxy cement. I hope the cement can cure at the temps we have now, about 40 deg F. [I'll read the label - if it calls for higher temps, I'll put a droplight in the trench outside and cover it. That should raise the raise the temp in there high enough to cure it right.]
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:39 AM   #14
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Must be sleeved, or instead use Pex, and he's right there's thousands of home that years ago where run with copper in direct contact with concrete that had to be redone.
It's rare to even see copper used outside any more as a supply, it burst when it freezes, and the cost has gone though the room.
"Millions of homes have copper supply lines and their fine if they were installed at the proper depth and the proper copper rating"
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:48 AM   #15
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How To Bring Copper Pipe Through Concrete Block


Quote:
Originally Posted by jagans View Post
Put in a Galvanized steel sleeve that is at least 1 inch ID bigger than the pipe. Center pipe. Grout sleeve with epoxy cement. stuff fiberglass in the void, and caulk with Neutral cure Silicone sealant, tool concave with spatula. Caulk both sides, and not too thick. If you have foam pipe insulation you can use that instead of FG. The foam in a can is acidic, will absorb moisture, and is not resistant to UV. Neutral Cure Silicone is resistant to UV, wont absorb water, and is not acidic
Good Lord, talk about making a simple job complicated. And who cares if the foam isn't UV resistant? It'll be under ground.

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