How bad am I screwing up this plumbing? - DIY Chatroom

CZ DIY · 10-04-2009, 07:42 PM

First time plumbing DIY'er here.

I'm installing a toilet in a location that never had one. Yesterday I installed the flange. Today I tied that flange into the existing PVC.

Problem is, the two joining sections I used are both leaking at both ends. Everything else I've done is fine. It's just these two 3" PVC joiners.

Am I using these the wrong way? What can I do to fix it or do it over properly?

They are leaking where the arrows are pointing to.

Here is what the PVC looked like before I applied primer/cement and slid the joiners over.

**thekctermite** · 10-04-2009, 08:12 PM

There's no reason it should ever leak if it is done correctly. You'll need to re-do it unfortunately. Use cleaner/primer....THEN cement. I wouldn't use the combination stuff. I'd also avoid using those slip connections and having butt joints where they're not needed. That just screams DIYer work.

The stool should empty into the 3" drain with a Y fitting in the direction of flow. You're using the wrong fitting. Can you take a picture of the entire job? I'm fairly confused by what I'm seeing here.

**Scuba_Dave** · 10-04-2009, 08:18 PM

Yeah top fitting in this pic is what you want

Michael Thomas · 10-04-2009, 09:29 PM

Also, you can't tie into the side of the horizontal drain line, the single leg of the "Y" must point upwards.

jogr · 10-04-2009, 09:33 PM

In addition to what the others said did you prime the inside of those slip fittings before you put them in place? It looks like the insides haven't been primed in the 2nd photo so if you didn't remove them after that they didn't get primed and will leak.

Slip fittings are difficult for DIYers to use. Besides remembering to prime them before putting them on I'm pretty sure you have to apply the cement to the inside while they are off, overslide them, apply more cement and slide them back to center. But to tell you the truth I don't know the official correct cementing procedure. Seems like any way you do it one side gets shorted on cement.

CZ DIY · 10-04-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite

There's no reason it should ever leak if it is done correctly. You'll need to re-do it unfortunately. Use cleaner/primer....THEN cement.

Okay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite

The stool should empty into the 3" drain with a Y fitting in the direction of flow. You're using the wrong fitting. Can you take a picture of the entire job? I'm fairly confused by what I'm seeing here.

Gotcha. I probably would have chosen the correct fitting if I'd seen it my first trip to Home Depot. I missed it somehow and remember being annoyed that this one I used was all I could find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave

Yeah top fitting in this pic is what you want

See above, and thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogr

In addition to what the others said did you prime the inside of those slip fittings before you put them in place? It looks like the insides haven't been primed in the 2nd photo so if you didn't remove them after that they didn't get primed and will leak.

Nope, I did not touch the inside of the slip fittings. I wanted to, but couldn't figure out how to get everything together any other way. So I applied liberal amounts of cement to the outside of the existing 3" pipe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogr

Slip fittings are difficult for DIYers to use. Besides remembering to prime them before putting them on I'm pretty sure you have to apply the cement to the inside while they are off, overslide them, apply more cement and slide them back to center. But to tell you the truth I don't know the official correct cementing procedure. Seems like any way you do it one side gets shorted on cement.

Thanks. I'll be trying everything all over again in the next couple days. Too bad I've wasted like $40+ of PVC and have to toss it all now. That one T-fitting was almost $15 by itself..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

Also, you can't tie into the side of the horizontal drain line, the single leg of the "Y" must point upwards.

Maybe that's not the way it's *supposed* to be. But the company that built my home nine years ago don't have any of their PVC junctions pointing upwards. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're talking about though?

Thanks everyone!

This is my first home. The master bathroom was TINY. Like sized for 1/2 person. So I've demolished the oversized, attached closet and built a more reasonable sized closet, while building out the bathroom to be larger. This means moving the toilet to the opposite side of the room and I'm also putting in a shower/sauna/jacuzzi which also is in a different location than the original shower (now in corner of house for strength).

The pictures at the top of this thread are of the area between the 1st & 2nd floor. Looking straight up. The 2x4 is where I had to repair the flooring a bit.

Here's a pic from a few feet back. The plumbing to the left is the original plumbing that I haven't touched.

JDC · 10-04-2009, 10:18 PM

You can tie into the side of a horizontal drain. In fact, in some cases it is required that the tie in be on the same horizontal plane as the horizontal branch. For instance, in a circuit vent or for a horizontal wet vent.

That tee you have there is a two way clean out tee and can only be used as a cleanout. The info about which fitting to use is correct, it must be a wye. You can use a street 45 with the wye making a combination fitting or just point the wye right at the toilet flange and 90 up into it. Depends on how much room you have and what is easiest.

As far as the slip couplings go, I never advise DIYers to use them. Most jurisdictions allow shielded couplings such as Fernco's Proflex couplings. Just get two 3" plastic X plastic Proflex couplings and use those.

**Scuba_Dave** · 10-04-2009, 10:20 PM

The input for the Y (from toilet) must point up
I'm not sure what angle, maybe you can do a 45

DangerMouse · 10-04-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

you can't tie into the side of the horizontal drain line

yup, i don't think poop turns corners well...

thanks for this thread though, it's given me a couple pointers on my upcoming plumbing nightmare next year.

DM

JDC · 10-04-2009, 10:30 PM

I'm sorry, but I am going to respectfully disagree about the wye having to point up. As I said there are certain instances that the tie is in REQUIRED by code to come off the same horizontal plane...as in a horizontal wet vent and a circuit vent. If the wye points upward say on a horizontal wet vent then you are choking off the vent entirely. The best thing to do would be to consult your local plumbing authority for their requirements. And...poop goes through long sweep 90s and 45s just fine. It doesnt just disappear once it hits the building drain.

CZ DIY · 10-04-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDC

Just get two 3" plastic X plastic Proflex couplings and use those.

Those look like winners! I'll see if I can find some at my Home Depot!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave

The input for the Y (from toilet) must point up
I'm not sure what angle, maybe you can do a 45

I definitely won't be able to go straight up. But I'll try for a 45 degree angle if I can get one somehow. I did have the side mount at a very slight slope. Invisible in the picture though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

yup, i don't think poop turns corners well...

Yeah, I'm understanding now how that cleanout Tee wasn't going to work so well. It would have just spread the poop in both directions. And the stuff going "uphill" wouldn't have had the flushing water to push it down the pipe.

**thekctermite** · 10-06-2009, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDC

I'm sorry, but I am going to respectfully disagree about the wye having to point up. As I said there are certain instances that the tie is in REQUIRED by code to come off the same horizontal plane...as in a horizontal wet vent and a circuit vent. If the wye points upward say on a horizontal wet vent then you are choking off the vent entirely. The best thing to do would be to consult your local plumbing authority for their requirements. And...poop goes through long sweep 90s and 45s just fine. It doesnt just disappear once it hits the building drain.

I can't cite code and verse, but I agree. I was always taught that a wye should not be installed "on its back".

**thekctermite** · 10-06-2009, 12:50 AM

Fernco's are a great option in lieu of slip connectors.

plumber Jim · 10-06-2009, 01:42 AM

Also. You need to vent that fixture.. I see no vent. I will also add that you don't have to have the wye on its back.. Just because it doesn't drip and water flows down the pipe doesn't make it right. You need to stop and learn how to run DWV before you do this. Because some day some other poor soul will be stuck with this mess. I am not trying to sound negative But I can see that you have no clue as to what you are doing and thats not good. What are your clearances on your toilet? side to side from center of teh flange and from back wall to center of the flange.

Michael Thomas · 10-06-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekctermite

I can't cite code and verse, but I agree. I was always taught that a wye should not be installed "on its back".

My understanding is that in both the IPC and UPC a tee should not be installed on it's back (that is "vertical to horizontal"), but that a wye can, at least that's the way it's listed (for example) in table 7 in the "Code Check" Plumbing guide.

So as I understand it at the OP's connection (assuming everythig else was correct and it was made that location) would have to be a wye, which could be either "on its back" or horizontal.

What's not allowed, as I understand it (again as indicated in table 7), is the use of a sanitary tee for either "vertical to horizontal" or "horizontal to horizontal connections", as shown in the OP's picture.

However, also I can't find documentation for a my statement that its better practice to install a wye "on its back" in the OPs application- I've been told this by plumbers, but I can't find objective evidence for this being the better practice.